Version 12.0.0

Ok, so rather than just joining the throng and complaining about the "kk" update, here's a suggestion, somewhat based upon what others have said so far:

a.) Regardless of display format, eliminate the rounding. That is creating more confusion than I think was intended.

b.) if there is a legitimate display issue with the game that the large numbers are causing display issues, then just implement a single M if a numeric value is greater than 1 million, using a decimal point for thousands. Unlike the "G", the "kk", and other issues, I think it's fair to say that the "M" is universally (internationally) known and used. A simple google search can confirm this, I think.

For example:

529,425 = 529,425 (no change needed)

1,003,965 = 1.003M

3,854,945,623 = 3,854.945M

No rounding, just drop the hundreds.

Yes, this technically is only saving 2 character places/digits, but considering that the game was apparently handling billions just fine before this update, I think 2 digits is likely all that is needed to be addressed.

And I suppose I should note that this option is not one of the options listed on Discord.

Anyway, I hope this helps.

Edit: Here's a link explaining some of the issues with M, G, and K:

https://www.chicagomanualofsty…bbreviations/faq0094.html

Question/request related to the numbers discussion:

On en, we received a global message advising all players of the voting in discord. But the us community didn't get the same message. Can we please have this shared to the us community, too?

be nice if they had a vote on the message board, I don't use discord but im confident on how discord will vote, hadn't seen anyone who actually likes it.

Rastan

The poll looks like this currently:

"None of this is binding and final" - this right here pretty much means "we pretend to care about your opinion, for the sake of PR, but in the end we'll do what we decide". Add to that the fact that the leading option (and with quite a lead at that) is probably the one they'd want the least ("bEcAuSe iT's dIfFiCuLt") and voilà Why bother to ask?

If I'm wrong - that's great for the matter at hand! If I'm not - also great, because I'm right.

Quote from mistrz03

"None of this is binding and final" - this right here pretty much means "we pretend to care about your opinion, for the sake of PR, but in the end we'll do what we decide". Add to that the fact that the leading option (and with quite a lead at that) is probably the one they'd want the least and voilà

Of course, they can and ultimately will decide whatever they want, since they are the ones that will be doing the work of implementing it. But they've decided it will be a good idea to gather information on the community's opinions, which is a good thing. They will weigh the results against how feasible each option is and factor it into the decision. This is all pretty obvious. Astonishing that you can see gathering opinions for informational purposes as a negative thing.

ya it's understandable that the vote does not translate into direct change but I'd assume they'd use it as a guide if there is a clear result..

Otherwise why even have it, the fact that they're even having a vote means they know a lot of people have expressed displeasure with new format and probably want to see if it's a loud minority or if it's not just smoke.

IMO asking some broader audience should be final. Why bother posting an option that is unfeasible anyway?

I hope the UI change will be seriously considered. The building UI is a no brainer, plenty of room for numbers. As foir the resource UI, there's some space below, so some sort of 2+3 could fit nicely.

Quote from mistrz03

IMO asking some broader audience should be final. Why bother posting an option that is unfeasible anyway?

I hope the UI change will be seriously considered. The building UI is a no brainer, plenty of room for numbers. As foir the resource UI, there's some space below, so some sort of 2+3 could fit nicely.

Because different options take different amounts of work, or perhaps are not fully investigated as to whether it's really feasible or not. If one option takes a lot more work (and time), then it might be a good idea to gather some data to find out if people really want that, then it might be worth taking a more serious look at it. It might still turn out to be infeasible in the end but at least you can know if people even want it to begin with, otherwise it's a waste of time. It's just a simple matter of being responsible with resources.

If the "Number Standard" issue is resolved with the survey results, I think we can now start talking about the other issue a little.

The Town List feature only works in the drop-down list you use to town you go. The other locations (Trade Port, Palace, and Daily Bonus) have the same mixed list.

Moreover, the sorting preferences do not work properly. According to "Age" section, I built my 4th town before my 3rd town.

Also, thanks to the new number standard, we can now see the actual GP value of each unit in battle reports.

Nothing will ever be the same again.

Quote from badidol

Quote from bll

Universally known? I think not. I've never seen this before, never heard of it before.

Anecdotal evidence.

You never heard it. I see it in dozens of games and in dozens of tools/scripts with very high numbers.

In dozens of games players use it themselves when trading on markets.

Just because you don't know it, doesn't mean, it's not known generally.

The big problem with KK in ikariam is not whether the player understands the meaning or not, it's that when creating this metric I take 11,450,001 and transform it into 11.5kk which could be between 11,450,000 and 11,549,999 , and as we deal with boat limitations all the time, 100,000 more or less makes all the difference when it comes to transport quickly, especially those who play on mobile

Quote from spart

The big problem with KK in ikariam is not whether the player understands the meaning or not, it's that when creating this metric I take 11,450,001 and transform it into 11.5kk which could be between 11,450,000 and 11,549,999 , and as we deal with boat limitations all the time, 100,000 more or less makes all the difference when it comes to transport quickly, especially those who play on mobile

Yeah, you're right.

But, as we see, another important issue for players is aesthetics – "kk", "kkk" look awful, maybe not in general or as a concept, but especially in Ikariam, where people play for 15 years on different system of numbers. And it's not only case of habits, but appearance, good looking, adjustment to the rest of content in game, to the known context etc.
I hope Game Operators are working on the last option in DC voting to adjust the UI (if it's really necessary) to display always all numbers on screen.

Quote from Chuck "Bee" Bashlick

Moreover, the sorting preferences do not work properly. According to "Age" section, I built my 4th town before my 3rd town

with the merge who put all the towns in random order, your townid's went @#$#@$$ as well.... New number so new birthday

Quote from badidol

Quote from Luky

but ..... please , you can't say it's better now than before !!!

There are gazillions of games using similar notations. There are many games, some of us even ours (Metin2 for example comes to mind), where players themselves count in k, kk, kkk in the markets when trading items etc. k, kk, kkk is not exactly unknown to gamers in general, albeit obviously unusual and unknown to Ikariam players.

With constantly growing numbers in Ikariam a change to a different numeral notation and handling was ultimately necessary. Many games solve too high number growth with a number squish, but somehow I think, Ikariam players wouldn't love the idea much of their 5.000.000 gold suddenly becoming 500 gold (prices would of course also shrink, every number would simply be squished).

k, kk, kkk is a mathematical notation that's universally known and used in maths etc., so that also doesn't change with localization, which is another problem that existed. Turkish for example had an expression for million that was, for some reason, even longer than the word million. In the US, a billion is something different than in the EU. There are many, many good reasons not to use words but simple units that are universally the same.

Sure, we could have also used exponential notation, then 1.000.000 would have been 1x10⁶. The fact remains: with the ever growing numbers in Ikariam, this needed shortening AND a universal notation that doesn't change with language.

As always: we'll gather feedback and see what happens. I am not going to go into panic mode after not even a full 24 hours of the thing being live and in total not even 50 unique users mentioning dislike. We don't make decisions based on panic mode, we gather feedback, evaluate and then work with a more rounded foundation of feedback.

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at least please return the user order in the scoreboard to the middle instead of pinning the names to the left or right (in the RTL version),

Quote from Tita Tovenaar

with the merge who put all the towns in random order, your townid's went @#$#@$$ as well.... New number so new birthday

So what's the point of adding a sorting preference of "Age"?

Quote from RealSparta

at least please return the user order in the scoreboard to the middle instead of pinning the names to the left or right (in the RTL version),

One more thing, it writes the nickname of a player who has a title without spaces in the title and if you hover over the nickname with your mouse (which happens in search results, not in the normal sorted list) it shows it as HTML code (i.e. <i>title</i>nickname).

Quote from Chuck "Bee" Bashlick

So what's the point of adding a sorting preference of "Age"?

Because that's basically the "default"-setting, for those who didn't change the city-order and/or those who want to go back to it.

Age was also finally fixed with graveyarding or server transferring.

Quote from Chuck "Bee" Bashlick

So what's the point of adding a sorting preference of "Age"?

realy don't know. ..

Quote from Chuck "Bee" Bashlick

[tt]So what's the point of adding a sorting preference of "Age"?

For when you do NOT want not have your towns sorted by custom or any other option

So what's the deal with the number format? The vote is overwhelmingly in favor of changing it back to the original format, with all digits fully displayed. After a month, I'm not getting anymore used to the kkk format. It's annoying to have to constantly hover your mouse over large numbers to get an exact amount. Lets go! Change it back! Don't make me get my torch and pitchfork.

Quote from Chuck "Bee" Bashlick

One more thing, it writes the nickname of a player who has a title without spaces in the title and if you hover over the nickname with your mouse (which happens in search results, not in the normal sorted list) it shows it as HTML code (i.e. <i>title</i>nickname).

Would be nice if the titles went in a separate column. I don't know them all by heart so sometimes I don't know where the title ends and the name begins. And some of those titles are just too damn long.