Der Todesengel
PriesterTheOne
Albtraum
Schlumpf
Walter White
bofur
bee
Scherzkeks
Jestix
Barefoot
Worker
Panter
Requlaar
Violet
BERZERK
Death Row
Balean
balin
bifur
BillyBathgate
CaptainGermany
The Giggler
Lake
Platzhalter
Pudge
Black_Assassin
Holzellie
Holzfritz
Holzwilly
iworkx
NordisTheOne
97tuba
Baumschubser
---------------------------------
Posting for reference - Ops, please feel free to close this thread
the problem is simply gold.
there are a lot of reasons for that, but it is, what it is.
just remove the ability to use gold for transactions in the tradepost and the black market.
once those two buildings are restricted to using the 5 resources to barter with, the game's already-in-place balancing elements come into play.
@Diogenes - based upon the above, you probably can just close this thread, as the original poster is unlikely to have CRs to post anytime in the near future
Disquiet in the Ranks - GF Blanket Message Re Ukraine
While this thread was well-meant, in light of badidol 's post above, and if for no other reason to prevent ill-thought/thoughtless nonsense, please close this thread.
Awww didums widdle stawman want some attention? isn't that adorable.
oh and no, you don't blame the target of abuse for the abuse they receive.
it's ok, I have no doubt you'll learn this, and many other things, once you grow into your big-boy pants.
now go find your mommy, it sounds like it's time for your nap.
pleasant dreams : )
So, just to understand...
Godfather has posted that using a colossus is a badge of dishonour. but then uses the colossus and THEN somehow doesn't mention that, instead trying to claim it was battle prowess that won the battle.
Colour me unsurprised.
I've been watching the CRs roll in, and it's becoming repetitive, godfather and the pearls run away. again and again.
Look, retreat is a valid option in battle.
What makes this stupidly funny is how much godfather does so, but then claims he won by his battle prowess.
He claims he loots a town but "neglects" to mention that those tradeships were scattered so he didn't actually get anything
telling part of a story, but leaving out the parts that don't make one look good, is also known as lying.
At the end of the day, Lost is fighting these losers for reasons laid out here:
Notice of Retaliation Against Lake (S-P)
Lost started out focused on Lake, but then the pearl alliance attacked lost members who weren't even fighting Lake. So now pearl clearly has more than they can handle.
Even with the huge general banks, they still are not doing well.
So please, feel free to continue to spout nonsense. Posting big pictures, with edited CRs, doesn't change the fact that pearl continues to lose, and to look very foolish.
I now return you to your vanity exercise.
I don't know where everyone, or everyone's loved ones, are from...
But in regards to the real life events in Ukraine - I just wanted to say that, while we are hearing about loss of life, I hope that such loss of life is minimized and that this attack is ended sooner than later.
I wish you all well
So when you turn it off from Options, you will have turned it off.
So the leader has to turn it off in their personal options?
Are you sure that's not just the player's personal display of the flag?
Lol, yes,for the first couple, you showed up when I was offline (your usual modus operandi : )
interesting that you didn't show that for those last ones on the first day, by using only 2 ramships, I scattered your tradeships and trapped your military (ships and troops) on the island. (CR below : )
Now, I could have then gone into vmode and scattered your military after that, or any number of other things.
Instead, I decided to leave you there. My "special guest", as it were. And here you are, day 2, and still there : )
So while you are pillaging wine and what-not, that I am not worried about, My alliance members are farming your alliance members. You clearly care soooo much about your alliance. lol So easy to bait a fool. What a loser.
Anyway, with that I'll leave you to your vanity thread : )
---------------------
Sea battle near Pink Panzer
(03.02.2022 17:32:36)
Skyhawk[Lost] from Pharos
vs
Pink Panther from Pink Panzer
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
............................................. - Paddle Speedboat........................1(-0)
Ram-Ship................................2(-0) - .............................................
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Military....................................0 - Military....................................0
Offensive points............................0 - Defence points..............................0
Damage Received.............................0 - Damage Received.............................0
Damage Percent.............................0% - Damage Percent.............................0%
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Winners: Skyhawk[Lost]
Losers: Pink Panther
2 units from Skyhawk[Lost] are blocking the port entrance to Pink Panzer
The miracle of Skyhawk[Lost] 'Hephaistos` Forge' is activated. (03.02.2022 17:32:36)
As the only thing left of Pink Panther's army were the flight or artillery units, they have withdrawn.
Is the widespead rampant cheating and abuse being addressed?
"Yeah, not even going to dignify this with a lengthy reply.
"You know what!". No. I can't read minds. If you have something to report, report it properly and address it properly, so people can actually understand, what you're talking about. This is just a pointless post, no useful info and nothing to react upon. In essence: a waste of time. Thanks for that.
Therefore, the usual applies: report things you think are report-worthy ingame using the provided report functions or via ticket system and they will be investigated and reacted to accordingly."
--------------------
Thank you for your response.
No you can't read minds, but you read the board, and I presume, as the paid GF coma, you are aware of the rampant issues going on.
I don't in any way think you are blind, or unaware.
And anyone - even if only reading the boards - should be able to see that there are massive issues going on.
And "opening a ticket" - I'm sorry, but at this point, it should not be the players' responsibility to ensure a fun and safe gaming environment.
The players should not be required to - just for one example -try to assemble IP information, or any other way need to become an internet detective.
We're here to enjoy playing a game.
I didn't ask for a lengthy answer - All I asked for was a "yes" or "no"
And while I cannot read minds either - your response rather clearly comes off as "no"
Thank you again for your response. feel free to close this thread upon reading, as you did the other one.
I doubt I will trouble to ask you anything further. I wish you well.
[mod='badidol']Once a topic has been closed, it has been closed. Opening a new one to respond to an already closed matter is against the forum rules. Please refrain from doing so in future.[/mod]
I think that the flat-out cheating and abuse of, and in, the game has become so widespread and self-apparent that there is no need to debate any longer.
I'm not going to describe what types of cheating - I have no doubt you are well-aware.
I'm not asking for how and in what way it may be being addressed - though presumably beyond just electronic papershuffling ("create more and more tickets") and just throwing up our hands in seeming impotent despair.
Just a simple yes/no question
Just need to know if there is any hope for the future.
The question:
"Is the widespead rampant cheating and abuse being addressed?:"
Thank you in advance for your response.
Display More
A word that everyone should say to you, thank you for your effort in answering all questions
ššššššš
You're welcome.
I just wish some of the answers were happier, better ones
I think, so do we all...
I guess I have an opinion on everything that has been going on here for weeks. I'll be talking as an ikariam player, not a moderator. Some players here can't accept the fact that now there are lots of features added to the game that made it completely different from the one played in 2008. They can't accept that some other players managed to get the maximum benefit of these featuress with their own strategies of playing while they couldn't do great with them. Things as Black Market and Piracy made something I like to call "A mini game" inside the game. Some players focus on these things to gather more resources or troops and raise their Total score. This is called being smart and nothing else. However, I believe that if someone (for example) is using black market to gain money out of game, maybe that is something that should be reported to support, instead of putting limits on players who put their best skills in such features.
Let's accept that the gameplay should be free, and that means no limits on black market, no limits on Pillage, no limits to trade resources, no limits to raid piracy points; and any kind of gameplay should be accepted by everyone and it's not "cheating" and it's not "unfair" as long as it doesn't break any Game Rules which are already clear to everyone.
Have fun, please.
Listing a bunch of things you want doesn't make you "free". It may however indicate you're short-sighted.
I could add to your list:
we should be able to freely pillage gold
we should be able to freely destroy other players' buildings.
We should be able to demolish/de-level mills and mines
the wonders should not be restricted.
We shouldn't have timers and should get instant gratification on everything we want.
and on, and on.. meh
Oh and, the black market isn't a "mini-game".
But again, I'm not surprised at your response. "I wants it" is the never ending cry.
Regardless, this discussion is fairly moot, as obviously GF is no longer doing any sort of case-study analysis of the game. Much less listen to us on the boards.
Badidol cured me of that misapprehension.
caps are definitely an interesting solution
another alternative might be to remove the ability to use gold in the black market or tradepost. having to commit resources (marble, etc.) and the tradeships to transport them, has several benefits, not the least of which, it would address multiple abuses in both the tradepost and blackmarket.
Of course, people have been taking advantage of this a long time, so they'll likely complain if they have to use actual resources than merely stocked up gold.
that's the trouble, once these things are added, once they show to have issues, people don't want them to go.
it's the game design issue of the "must have" item in a game. usually a must-have item is something needing fixing - but those aware of the must-have item will scream like child having their candy taken away.
So unless the game producers/makers look past that, nothing will be fixed.
Anyway, caps are definitely an interesting idea, just prepared to hear that the cap values are arbitrary, or even unnecessary.
"We wants it, my precious"
: )
Display MoreThere is really nothing I could reply, that hasn't been said about this a few dozen times already.
As said before...none of all of this is new and to be honest, it would've probably been quicker to just go back and copy paste what I've already written or even just copy paste links to old posts saying exactly the same.
The tl;dr version basically is:
Yes, we're still working on the game.
No, I can't currently tell you any spoilers.
Yes, we do want to improve the Ikariam experience.
No, we're not going to "fix the App", we're still out of mobile development as far as that is concerned.
No, Piracy and Black Market are not going to be "simply removed" from the game. There's not even a point for me to suggest that.
Yes, the shop will continue to have items for sale that can gain you an advantage.
Yes, for the forseeable future it will remain a matter of "either invest time or money". As is the case in pretty much any game that isn't pay to play.
Sorry for the really long text, but I am not planning on reacting to the same thing again any time soon, so I thought we'd cover it all in one go. So now there's a relatively fresh and new post, saying all the things again we've already addressed several times over the past few years. I am sorry, if many of this doesn't please or satisfy you. It is, however, the best I can give you: honesty and a direct approach, as always. All I can ask you, is to bear with me. As someone working on Ikariam for just shy of 13 years now, I am aware of how demanding and heartbreaking this can be. Ikariam never was "instant gratification", many of you who are with us for longer than just a few months know this all too well. All I can ask is for you to bear with me and continue walking this road with me. I'm going to. And I'd be happy if I'd see you next to me.
Thank you for taking the time to share this thoughtful response.
I appreciate and respect the position you are in, in this. And I appreciate what you were able to share with us
I suppose in response, I could parse your message line-by line, explaining that much of what you said, I did and do understand already, but I realise that this is a forum environment, and though I may be the original poster, your message was clearly intended for a broader audience.
To merely note a few things:
I understand what you were trying to convey overall about game monetisation, but as I mentioned in a previous post, there are many ways in which to do that.
When you remove the cosmetic appearance of it all, Ikariam is mostly (though not entirrely) merely just a game of timers and time management. Due to mass duplicative presentation, resource management, while present, is less of a thing. Resources in this game are a cost/barter item. x number of resources to level a building, or research points to get the next research, etc.
Timers are used for the interim wait times for the execution of actions (send a ship, send a spy, etc.), and for the creation of "objects" (buildings, troops, ships)
I never proposed painting with a broad brush and removing the ambrosia store. As I said, there are ways that players can accept - and even like - ways in which ambrosia can affect the game. the key being using ambrosia to somewhat speed up timers to reduce "how long".
I'm not thrilled with, but can accept, being able to purchase chunks of the 5 ingredient resources (marble, etc) - though they are gained, again, through waiting on a timer, they also could be gained through pillaging and as pirate rewards etc. And further, these are still only "ingredients" not finished products.
Where we start to have a major issue is when ambrosia grants a finished product.
Hence my point about being able to buy a fully levelled building. Once you cross that line, you invalidate the time invested in the game. You remove that intrinsic "value" that players place upon their invested time in the game, and by so doing, reduce their sense of "ownership" in the game. Once you cross that line, players leave the game. It really is that simple.
Well, being able to buy troops as fully created objects crosses that line.
And gold is more than simply a single resource. Unlike research points, which are focused to one particular things, or even the resources which are mostly focused on creating or developing objects, gold is omnipresent and used nearly everywhere in the game.
Gold is already abused in the tradepost. This is not merely my opinion. Game Forge - while it had more developer resources attached to this game - consistently continued to look at that and modified that several times.
So all the tradepost gold abuses are present in the black market PLUS you are not buying an ingredient, but a fully created object.
This is further exacerbated due to allowed (and disallowed) multi-accounting, which allows even far greater abuses.
(I don't think I need to explain the various abuses to you at this point, I think you are well aware.)
So when I look at the many many issues facing Ikariam, and am looking at what needs fixing the most, it's pretty obvious. Setting aside addressing actual cheating (which I'm trying to leave outside this particular discussion), I would estimate that the biggest issues that players face are:
1.) the buying of created objects with gold or resources in the black market - gold is worse than resources, as it only requires a single tradeship to transport gold, while buying troops with the ingredient resources can take many ships.
2.) the buying of objects, gold, and ingredient resources (marble etc) - in that order - with ambrosia.
3.) massive abuse of multi-accounting in many different ways. And not just general banks. I won't bother to try to begin to list even some of them here.
4.) the abuse of gold in the tradepost and the black market.
I don't include piracy because - while I don't disagree that it can be misused, and also that it's killing the game because it's a more "passive" way to take "something" from other players (you take "capture points" rather than actual game resources) and so it has reduced the interest in this game by certain types of player. So Ikariam has become a much "softer" game thereby, in many ways. Even so, it doesn't come anywhere close to the abused issues above.
Ok, so at this point, what's to be done?
I think you laid it out very clearly in your post.
You care about these things, but GF does not.
There are 22 other games out there, and apparently their existence prevents the allocation of development resources to ikariam to address these things.
And the selling of such things with ambrosia, as a short term money grab, is more important than long term development of the game.
As for future development, I appreciate that you cannot say what may be coming or when - no sense in self-setting up such a strawman.
But that could be as minor as more cosmetic looks to the 4 advisors in the main window, to adding a new building. Nothing to suggest that the actual multiple issues with the game will be resolved.
I don't place this on you, I recognise the position you are likely in, but honestly, the various cheaters must have cheered after reading your message.
I don't cheat. I see no point in playing a game if one needs to cheat, and that's regardless of whether I'm playing by others' games' rules, house rules, games which I may have designed or produced, or whatever.
So I am finding all of this disheartening.
In any case, I do appreciate your time and the candor you were able to provide.
I will say with some honesty, there truly have been times I have enjoyed my time in Ikariam
Thanks again.
Skyhawk.
I'm not done yet!
I will have my revenge...
Good luck because they just scooped another account and it has a 1.9 million gen score and he's not in v.mode. I wonder how much they paid for that account?
Naaah, that doesn't sound broken to me at all. (rolls eyes)
I'm starting to wonder if maybe the Game Ops' hands are tied.
In the modern world of phones and computers and so on, all having different internet providers, besides all the other ways people seem to have different IP addresses. And these days, companies tend to cleanse customers' IP info after a certain length of time. So "IP fleet contact" as the only restriction seems kinda out-dated and possibly unable to address the various cheating going on.
So is this the new status quo?
The point is, we try-ied to ask GF a ton of stuff, shorter round, more ship, new features.
Not quite true. Initially the round was 15 mins long, then was decreased to 15 mins. Initially there was only 180 possible ships, then 40 Phoenician ships were added, friend list bonus and ever a government form bonus ships. Also we got a new building. So - they use to listen to us sometimes, and add something new if there are resources.
"...So - they use to listen to us sometimes..."
used to
sometimes
Definitely inspiring hope for the future.
I proposed an easy-to-implement solution - remove several items from the ambrosia store. remove a single building (black market) which will require also removing a tab in the tradepost, and likely some attached interaction coding calls.
But as I said, if the goal is pay-to-win, say so. I may be willing to occasionally chase windmills, but I won't beat my head against a wall.
Decide what kind of game you want to be and whether you think that model is profitable or sustainable
Oh and if you're bored, go search online and see how well the world-at-large likes the pay-to-win model.
Is this truly what you want for this game?
Sharing you pain pal
Let's hope one of those magic willy wonka support tickets does the trick!
I try but it says wrong password when i try log in. Scared to try change it with all the bugs this game has now or i may be locked right out of my account.
"...with all the bugs the game has now..."
With such a comment so casually made, one wonders how many others share that opinion/perspective of Ikariam.
And following that, I wonder how such an image of the game may be affecting Ikariam's cash flow...
Look, if the goal is just to milk this game til it's dead, Game Forge, please let the rest of us know. There is no sense in contributing to something that has no intention of trying to get better.
And as a wise guy said, if you have to reply with some sarcastic word, just dont reply.
Well, if you take the true as a sarcasm - that's really not my fault. But yeah, all these years I hear only whining without any real solution which would work for the most of players. The same in this thread. You just want to fulfill your personal wishes by removing multi accounts, black market and premium packages without a wider understanding about how it will affect the majority of players (you know, the boards are read only by max 10% of players, so your complaints do no mean that all players think the same) and how it will affect the incomes of company (this is a business and believe me - such a large company wouldn't exist for so long time without some smarter people leading it).
Multi accounts are bad, piracy is bad, black market is bad, premium things are bad - well, then make your own perfect charity game, pay all the expenses from your pocket and be the best game developer in the world. I can bet that even then the same players will find something else to complain. And again - it's no sarcasm, just an opinion after working for Gameforge for more than 10+ years and also by owning my own games with players who always are against something.
Hi,
Thanks for commenting. Though I am somewhat surprised at the tone of your comments. I suppose I'll just chalk it up to you being used to throwing attitude at fanboys/fangirls.
If you look at what I wrote, I expressly said I understand that this is a business, and that the company of course will want/need to make money.
But that can be done in many ways.
and good, smart companies do not do that in such a way as to alienate their playerbase.
And before you tell me how awesome game forge is doing keeping their playerbase. I'll merely point to the server merges.
Games do not merge servers if they have a growing clientbase. This is not an upward arc of success.
My post was to ask (to plead actually) that some action be taken.
The game's broken, and long has been broken. In many ways.
But the people is why long time players stick around.
And Ikariam is losing people.
Not the short-time thrill-seeking fanboy/fangirl.
But those deep-pocketed players who have been playing this over a decade and now have jobs and families
There is money to be made. But not if GF doesn't clean things up.
At what point does someone just shrug their shoulders and say "This is just a browser game" and walk away?
You want to have servers that have black markets? Fine. make them separate specialty servers like the gold pillaging ones, with their own specific rules. But just like gold pillaging - which was removed from all servers for a very long time - the game processes are currently being abused.
This ball is quite simply in GF's court.
But don't wait too long deciding what to do. Or there may be few left to see it.
badidolĀ Hera and all other admins, moderators, and game ops.
I am merely one person. 1 player in a browser game.
I have played ikariam since nearly the beginning. I remember seeing the notice about it coming up and created an account on the en server way back when. I remember back when the game was so busy they would lock worlds from being able to create new accounts. I remember when the us servers were created and there was some confusion because internet search engines at the time didn't make the difference clear that alpha en was different than alpha us.
And all the changes since then. adding things removing things restoring things changing things, and on and on,
I understand that a video game may feel that it needs to change and evolve, and that is going to involve trial and error. Some things succeed better than others and some are "good enough", and some are fails.
I have no doubt from comments I have seen from you all that you are aware of the issues concerning multi accounting, as well as general banks.
I just wanted to let you know, in case you were not aware - long time players are leaving. it's not the merge. It's this.
Most people can accept a touch of "pay to win" in an online game, after all, the company needs to make money to survive. But usually these things are restricted to cosmetic things, passive things, restorative things, low end development things.
That's long no longer been the case.
not only can one use ambrosia to buy military, which itself is a problem, but with the black market and multi accounting (allowed and disallowed), this really has become a pay to win game.
I mentioned in another thread that the ability to purchase military (a fully developed object) is similar to the ability to buy a fully levelled up building, like a level 32 academy. From a game design perspective, there really is no difference.
And further, since military actively interacts with other players, and actively can remove/destroy objects created by other players (their fully developed troops) this is actually more of an issue.
There was a thread that the black market needs to go away, and that's true. But that's only part of this problem. The ability to buy troops with ambrosia needs to go away as well. And so does the ability to buy gold with ambrosia.
Now if you all feel that "pay to win" is ok, then please feel free to let us know that, so that players can make the discerning life choices as they feel appropriate.
But I honestly don't think pay-to-win was the intention.
So I say this to you because the only way this will change is if YOU take action. I can't do anything. Only you can pass these concerns to game forge. Only you can make the difference whether this game is pay to win or not.
Is this the only issue? Of course not. Is it the biggest one? Yes. It's actually worse than multi-accounting, and that's saying something, because the current abuses of multi-accounting are very bad.
I believe you care about these things, or you would not volunteer your own time in support of Ikariam.
So I am asking please. Please resolve this.
Thank you for your time.
