Workshops upgrades

    I am curious to know where people stand with upgrades in their workshop. Who wants to share their journey? Currently I have 345 upgrades in the workshop. Where do others stand?

    i stand outside the door. Its refreshing to know that currently anyone who causes grievance on my journey can be met with resistance and a counter offensive. I've had battles with the new +5 upgrades, a perfect line-up will result in a loss now against large smartly upgraded accounts. Now skill-based players are rendered useless and replaced with highly upgraded, probably multi-accounters. Now im at a cross roads of choosing whether to invest heavily into improving my account or simply playing a different game. A high wall is one of the key components i've been using, they nerf it slightly. I have a forge on everyday even when im not fighting, they nerf the forge to relatively ineffective. Now they buff workshop upgrades and my account size can't compete, it will take months to readjust and i already had something lined up soon. Every downgrade, only a few improvements. Gods shrine is wonderful, change building location wonderful. The improved cargo's was good on paper but it has just caused pillage time to increase to around 38minutes instead of 33. I simply can't fathom what Gameforge are doing right now. There's a whole lot of movement but i won't say its in the upward direction

    I reached a point to upgrade till it was relatively cheap, gold and crystal, I stopped there. That is because after a point you have to invest huge amounts of crystal, and gold. Unfortunately I don't have test accounts in order to test the effect if upgrades, and unfortunately all the (dozens) posts are for nothing: their talking theoretically, comparing irrelevant and different things, adding oranges with apples (for example, randomly, they say "10 times upgraded unit A win 4 times upgraded Unit B or if you wave that and this against upgraded that and this, or 5 of this upgraded x tines wins 3 of that upgraded y times"). I quess no one had the patience to test one simple thing: full field sea battle, each, say, 3.000 ships, all same units (e. g. each 1000 steam rams, 500 rams, 300 rocket ships, etc.), and dame number of tenders too, say 100. One upgraded zero times (that is fully with old system), the other, say, 5 times all units both attack both defense. And then battle repots:


    1. Upgraded attacker - non upgraded defender

    2. Non upgraded attacker - upgraded defender

    3. Upgraded attacker - non upgraded defender forge

    4. Non upgraded attacker forge - upgraded defender


    There are other combinations, but the above ate basic. Before that, I am not going to invest.

    I have tested battles, thats why im disappointed. You actually don't need to test, the numbers are there, you can see what the effects will do. I actually predicted the units it will heavily impact and i was correct. What i didn't predict was how potent x5 has been to some units. 80% of it you can upgrade endless and get nowhere but some units are extremely unbalanced. I don't mind sharing this info, the smaller numbered units (damage, armour etc) reap alot more benefits than a giant unit that a +5 doesn't really impact. Thats the short answer. The long answer is im still disappointed in gameforge and my conclusion is im still dissapointed in gameforge

    I have gone even steven on troops in battles but with only a 10 upgrade on hops compared to enemy at level 20 and it seemed I would kill 7 more enemy attacking hops, then it would go down to 6 and 5 and then the attacker would kill 25 of mine. My buddy says the rams upgraded to at least 10 are a big help.

    Otherwise i will slowly upgrade optician to 50 but im not busting my butt to jump on it. This seems like a money grab via ambro trades more then anything.

    But if it makes a big difference i will just hide if attacked because our last alliances sea battles could last for hundreds of rounds with guys that have half a million gen scores so im not fighting that. Attrition battles are not my thing but some guys love them and in a big war it helps to have a couple of those going on while the guerillas hit the other guerillas. That's where the large upgrades may be of use is attrition battles.

    Quote from Cheech

    i stand outside the door. Its refreshing to know that currently anyone who causes grievance on my journey can be met with resistance and a counter offensive. I've had battles with the new +5 upgrades, a perfect line-up will result in a loss now against large smartly upgraded accounts. Now skill-based players are rendered useless and replaced with highly upgraded, probably multi-accounters. Now im at a cross roads of choosing whether to invest heavily into improving my account or simply playing a different game. A high wall is one of the key components i've been using, they nerf it slightly. I have a forge on everyday even when im not fighting, they nerf the forge to relatively ineffective. Now they buff workshop upgrades and my account size can't compete, it will take months to readjust and i already had something lined up soon. Every downgrade, only a few improvements. Gods shrine is wonderful, change building location wonderful. The improved cargo's was good on paper but it has just caused pillage time to increase to around 38minutes instead of 33. I simply can't fathom what Gameforge are doing right now. There's a whole lot of movement but i won't say its in the upward direction

    A forge is never relatively ineffective. It's still extra damage, not having one hurts you compared to someone else who does have one on, and it's an advantage against anyone who isn't forged. In the next update it's changed to 15% / 20 armor so it does get some of the armor back that it was missing.


    Also, improving the ships did not cause pillage time to increase. Pillage time is the same, 15 resources per ship per minute, but the reality is you have larger ships so you get more res for the same travel time. This is a huge buff, not a nerf.


    If you're pillaging someone on your island, yeah, it's not a big change because the travel time is only 10m/10m. The longer the travel time the more beneficial it is.


    If you choose not to upgrade and someone else does, you're simply making a different choice. Whether or not that pays out for you is another question.


    If you upgrade appropriately, someone with 10x your score only has +3/+3 levels on your troops.

    Edited once, last by User12996 ().

    GF gave out a bunch of free trades from the Hydra event and from Christmas. On most of my accounts I have 12 to 17. If you build up your storage, one trader can take you a long, long ways.


    I'm honestly confused how you don't have all 50 redux with an account your size. For the Palace/GR alone it's worth it.

    Quote from Grim Reaper

    I am curious to know where people stand with upgrades in their workshop. Who wants to share their journey? Currently I have 345 upgrades in the workshop. Where do others stand?

    Right now, I discovered that max level workshop (lv 32) is not sufficient to upgrade balloon carrier's armor more than lv 7.

    Let me just run through these points


    I attacked someone heavily upgraded and had -100 more sword losses by round 2. My hoplites were taking even damage despite having extra DPS from spartans at the sides and my gyros were taking more losses. That was me forged and him forgeless. If there was ever words to describe it, it would be that it's a relatively ineffective forge


    -improving ships did not cause pillage time to increase. ok. Before a pillage was 33minutes, now with upgrades its 38minutes. That is an increase, you've just explained why there's an increase. I personally wouldn't call it a buff or a nerf, its just a change of events. If i gave you a car twice as quick but expected half the travel time would you be happy from an objective point of view? Same workload.


    The longer the travel, the more beneficial the higher pillage yield. Yes. Ok, a quick counter, i time attacks, the fact that there is potential for a deviation means margin for error. If i time 33mins and its 35 or 38 then i've lost my footing. I still think neither beneficial or hinderance - just extra movement from GF.


    Im not saying im not upgrading, i simply said my upgrades were alot less. My example of troop losses earlier had me with upgraded swords, gyros and hops. If i didn't have them upgraded the gap would be even higher.


    Thats an over assumption. I know small accounts with very heavy upgrades, it all depends on investment. Im trying to say big accounts already have advantages stacked, this has just made the gap substantial now. I don't like it, i have every right to voice this. I view combat reports from ikalogs in my spare time sometimes, it's refreshing to know almost all accounts have the same footing. Combat reports now will simply be who has the most important upgrades. The general direction of the game has just moved to a sim city build-it simulator. The winner is simply the biggest investor and nothing else. I have plenty more topics to rant about, please just pick one

    If the forge is ineffective, do you think you'd do better without the forge? I'd hardly suggest you would, the difference would simply be worse. Forge isn't an I win button if you don't upgrade your troops. I consider that good game play. Also the current forge only gives damage and a tiny amount of armor so you're going to have a lot of losses. It's rebalanced in the update we're getting in ~16h.


    And if you're getting a full load with your ships, it will *always* be 38. There's only deviation if you don't apply the formula, which is: total loot / (ships*15). If you're always getting a full load of goods, it'll be 38m with your upgraded ships, no different than how before upgrades it was 33m. If you send more ships than there is loot, it'll be faster, same as before. If you can't do the calculation, just pillage an inactive with 1 ship and that's your new max load time.


    You only need to compute it once after you upgrade and it's that time until you upgrade your ships again. There's no deviation, you simply don't understand the formula. Each upgrade does roughly net you 20% more overall loot in the same amount of time because of travel time.


    Without knowing your total score versus his total score, it's impossible for me to say if you're under upgraded or he was over upgraded, but that's the new reality. If you want to fight, you should invest in upgrading your troops as much as possible. If you don't, the forge isn't an I win button.


    I don't see it as a big advantage. You either invest or you don't. If everyone else invests and you don't? You're *under* investing. If a small account is willing to go to +15/+15, and you aren't? They *deserve* the advantage. Above all, levels of upgrades are now a strategy instead of get everything to 3/3.


    Finally, if you are properly upgraded, someone with 10x your score will have +3/+3 at best simply because of how expensive the upgrades are.

    Edited once, last by User12996 ().

    Quote from LG2nd
    Quote from Grim Reaper

    I am curious to know where people stand with upgrades in their workshop. Who wants to share their journey? Currently I have 345 upgrades in the workshop. Where do others stand?

    Right now, I discovered that max level workshop (lv 32) is not sufficient to upgrade balloon carrier's armor more than lv 7.

    As of this recent update that problem has been fixed. You can now increase your workshop again and continue the upgrades.

    So i stopped 10 days before doing this and there are some numbers of the upgrade costs per unit. (the reason is that i just want to upgrade the ships and the cargo ships in near future and i needed the crystal)

    - The last 4 columns just refer to the % difference per level, and it seems that as the level grows the cost is a bit lower every time

    - The cost of the crystal is for lvl 50 of the optician

    - so in numbers if someone want a lvl 8 of all army units this is for

    gold: 25,217,366

    crystal: 7,982,454

    i understand that the cost of these lvls its way too small for medium and big accounts, but i think we will lack of gold in near future :P


    As the max lvl of the workshop is 81 there are some units like the Hoplite that can achieve 81-4 = 77 lvls i think this is crazy for today's numbers and productions but anything can happen in this game (or there are some hidden top lvls that we don't know till today)


    in next post (later today) i wiil have the ship units


    hope it will help!!!



    Hoplite Offense Defense
    Gold Glass Gold Glass
    LvL 4 13672 4611 44671 13752
    Lvl 5 26842 8847 93096 26855 96% 92% 108% 95%
    LvL 6 48874 15711 174701 47714 82% 78% 88% 78%
    LvL 7 83858 26277 303289 79064 72% 67% 74% 66%
    LvL 8 137349 41944 496388 124280 64% 60% 64% 57%
    LvL 9 216827 64527 776030 187497 58% 54% 56% 51%
    LvL 10 332281 96363 Ā  Ā  53% 49%
    LvL 11 Ā  Ā  1711379 389187
    Steam Giant Offense Defense
    Gold Glass Gold Glass
    LvL 4 90268 30765 90268 30765
    Lvl 5 188195 65549 188195 65549 108% 113% 108% 113%
    LvL 6 353217 125295 353217 125295 88% 91% 88% 91%
    LvL 7 613252 220942 613252 220942 74% 76% 74% 76%
    LvL 8 1003740 366528 1003740 366528 64% 66% 64% 66%
    LvL 9 1569238 579865 1569238 579865 56% 58% 56% 58%
    Spearman Offense Defense
    Gold Glass Gold Glass
    LvL 4 31886 9608 10845 3463
    Lvl 5 69233 18968 20243 6070 117% 97% 87% 75%
    LvL 6 134099 33867 35129 9969 94% 79% 74% 64%
    LvL 7 239097 56260 57843 15638 78% 66% 65% 57%
    LvL 8 400675 88557 91567 23708 68% 57% 58% 52%
    Swordsman Offense Defense
    Gold Glass Gold Glass
    LvL 4 31886 9608 10845 3463
    Lvl 5 69233 18968 20243 6070 117% 97% 87% 75%
    LvL 6 134099 33867 35129 9969 94% 79% 74% 64%
    LvL 7 239097 56260 57843 15638 78% 66% 65% 57%
    LvL 8 400675 88557 91567 23708 68% 57% 58% 52%
    Slinger Offense Defense
    Gold Glass Gold Glass
    LvL 4 5654 1773 5654 1773
    Lvl 5 9915 2917 9915 2917 75% 65% 75% 65%
    LvL 6 16545 4592 16545 4592 67% 57% 67% 57%
    LvL 7 26566 6998 26566 6998 61% 52% 61% 52%
    LvL 8 41385 10399 41385 10399 56% 49% 56% 49%
    Archer Offense Defense
    Gold Glass Gold Glass
    LvL 4 57226 19730 8505 2706
    Lvl 5 126813 43754 18268 5408 122% 122% 115% 100%
    LvL 6 248225 85670 35642 9904 96% 96% 95% 83%
    LvL 7 444424 153406 64536 16966 79% 79% 81% 71%
    LvL 8 744535 257016 110304 27604 68% 68% 71% 63%
    Sulphur Carabineer Offense Defense
    Gold Glass Gold Glass
    LvL 4 84164 28105 13672 4913
    Lvl 5 177786 59312 26842 9687 111% 111% 96% 97%
    LvL 6 335555 111902 48874 17673 89% 89% 82% 82%
    LvL 7 584160 194770 83858 30355 74% 74% 72% 72%
    LvL 8 957483 319211 137349 49746 64% 64% 64% 64%
    Ram Offense Defense
    Gold Glass Gold Glass
    LvL 4 13672 4761 90268 31529
    Lvl 5 26842 9370 188195 68068 96% 97% 108% 116%
    LvL 6 48874 17081 353217 131321 82% 82% 88% 93%
    LvL 7 83858 29326 613252 233062 72% 72% 74% 77%
    LvL 8 137349 48048 1003740 388308 64% 64% 64% 67%
    Catapult Offense Defense
    Gold Glass Gold Glass
    LvL 4 90268 30232 60876 29636
    Lvl 5 188195 64372 128133 66704 108% 113% 110% 125%
    LvL 6 353217 123012 241473 131883 88% 91% 88% 98%
    LvL 7 613252 216887 420068 237701 74% 76% 74% 80%
    LvL 8 1003740 359777 688260 399945 64% 66% 64% 68%
    Mortar Offense Defense
    Gold Glass Gold Glass
    LvL 4 181409 49620 99239 33885
    Lvl 5 412686 100814 201627 68912 127% 103% 103% 103%
    LvL 6 823950 185458 370916 126827 100% 84% 84% 84%
    LvL 7 1492724 316746 633492 216655 81% 71% 71% 71%
    LvL 8 2512818 511256 1022512 349741 68% 61% 61% 61%
    Gyrocotper Offense Defense
    Gold Glass Gold Glass
    LvL 4 46146 15497 44361 15014
    Lvl 5 98323 32226 98538 33364 113% 108% 122% 122%
    LvL 6 187941 60511 194141 65746 91% 88% 97% 97%
    LvL 7 331411 105363 350386 118667 76% 74% 80% 80%
    LvL 8 549791 173285 592073 200529 66% 64% 69% 69%
    Balloon-Bombardier Offense Defense
    Gold Glass Gold Glass
    LvL 4 305551 95952 86228 26305
    Lvl 5 713561 214268 196768 56997 134% 123% 128% 117%
    LvL 6 1453431 420586 394173 110130 104% 96% 100% 93%
    LvL 7 2676374 750654 717586 195592 84% 78% 82% 78%
    LvL 8 4568064 1247113 1215720 325999 71% 66% 69% 67%

    So the ships (first the cargo)

    for lvl 10 of cargo:

    for gold: 23,448,421

    for crystal: 9,546,811




    Cargo Gold Glass
    LvL 1 8000 4500 1h add + 20
    LvL 2 25158 12001 2 h add + 20 214% 167%
    LvL 3 93777 40982 1h add + 20 273% 241%
    LvL 4 269143 133580 3 h add + 20 187% 226%
    LvL 5 625609 259359 1h add + 20 132% 94%
    LvL 6 1256504 515466 4 h add + 20 101% 99%
    LvL 7 2274282 926917 1h add + 20 81% 80%
    LvL 8 3810825 1546958 5 h add + 20 68% 67%
    LvL 9 6017833 2437493 1h add + 20 58% 58%
    LvL 10 9067290 3669555 6 h add + 20 51% 51%




    for the 8 lvl of ships

    for gold: 37,256,606

    for crystal: 12,985,220



    Fire Ship Offense Defense
    Gold Glass Gold Glass
    LvL 4 60043 18406 30435 9915
    LvL 5 137432 39982 67282 21362 129% 117% 121% 115%
    LvL 6 277256 77756 133034 41461 102% 94% 98% 94%
    LvL 7 509012 139195 241694 74353 84% 79% 82% 79%
    LvL 8 870131 233990 411638 125518 71% 68% 70% 69%
    Steam Ram Offense Defense
    Gold Glass Gold Glass
    LvL 4 126468 76690 89176 33665
    LvL 5 283400 179686 198587 73430 124% 134% 123% 118%
    LvL 6 560360 364218 392474 142808 98% 103% 98% 94%
    LvL 7 1008785 665579 708689 254922 80% 83% 81% 79%
    LvL 8 1691385 1126152 1194645 426414 68% 69% 69% 67%
    Ram-Ship Offense Defense
    Gold Glass Gold Glass
    LvL 4 25558 8152 13302 4583
    LvL 5 55605 16963 27911 9707 118% 108% 110% 112%
    LvL 6 108367 31868 52949 18581 95% 88% 90% 91%
    LvL 7 194706 55642 93313 33036 80% 75% 76% 78%
    LvL 8 329015 91932 155575 55564 69% 65% 67% 68%
    Ballista Offense Defense
    Gold Glass Gold Glass
    LvL 4 17327 5828 30435 9915
    LvL 5 37878 12476 67282 21362 119% 114% 121% 115%
    LvL 6 74061 23962 133034 41461 96% 92% 98% 94%
    LvL 7 133606 42572 241694 74353 80% 78% 82% 79%
    LvL 8 226954 71361 411638 125518 70% 68% 70% 69%
    Catapult Offense Defense
    Gold Glass Gold Glass
    LvL 4 42138 13459 63329 18406
    LvL 5 94618 29701 145792 39982 125% 121% 130% 117%
    LvL 6 187960 58452 294785 77756 99% 97% 102% 94%
    LvL 7 341234 105732 541738 139195 82% 81% 84% 79%
    LvL 8 578919 179482 926537 233990 70% 70% 71% 68%
    Mortar Offense Defense
    Gold Glass Gold Glass
    LvL 4 84769 27679 174432 55542
    LvL 5 190993 60816 399285 123932 125% 120% 129% 123%
    LvL 6 379232 118631 799125 243714 99% 95% 100% 97%
    LvL 7 686237 212060 1449323 436801 81% 79% 81% 79%
    LvL 8 1158039 354970 2441080 730102 69% 67% 68% 67%
    Rocket Offense Defense
    Gold Glass Gold Glass
    LvL 4 161597 55769 92479 27039
    LvL 5 360606 123153 207202 57513 123% 121% 124% 113%
    LvL 6 711823 241174 410500 109670 97% 96% 98% 91%
    LvL 7 1280478 431421 742065 192617 80% 79% 81% 76%
    LvL 8 2146094 720409 1251612 317773 68% 67% 69% 65%
    Diving Boat Offense Defense
    Gold Glass Gold Glass
    LvL 4 209945 68310 84769 27679
    LvL 5 482667 155039 190993 60816 130% 127% 125% 120%
    LvL 6 971287 309263 379232 118631 101% 99% 99% 95%
    LvL 7 1769257 560053 686237 212060 82% 81% 81% 79%
    LvL 8 2988803 942588 1158039 354970 69% 68% 69% 67%
    Paddle Offense Defense
    Gold Glass Gold Glass
    LvL 4 165300 71678 237613 83707
    LvL 5 363212 160379 538460 185351 120% 124% 127% 121%
    LvL 6 708326 316921 1061480 362597 95% 98% 97% 96%
    LvL 7 1260439 570379 1904954 646156 78% 80% 79% 78%
    LvL 8 2090880 956197 3176038 1072659 66% 68% 67% 66%
    Ballon Carrier Offense Defense
    Gold Glass Gold Glass
    LvL 4 516778 133530 814530 90049
    LvL 5 1180920 293656 181303 204650 129% 120% -78% 127%
    LvL 6 2350253 569498 358248 409975 99% 94% 98% 100%
    LvL 7 4220675 1005448 646833 745292 80% 77% 81% 82%
    LvL 8 7013904 1653235 1090327 1257761 66% 64% 69% 69%

    Ikariam/Gameforge does not normally publish their formulas, we have to figure them out on our own and hope we get them right


    Most of the formulas on Wikikarian are correct but some get off by 1 after so many upgrades/leves/recources/etc ... because they are not 100% correct

    Member of the Kingdom Of God alliance on US-Eurydike (transfer from US-Ny)

    Former member of the Honor alliance on US-Ny (R.I.P)
    Former leader of the UNDEAD alliance on US-Ny (transfer from US-Lambda)
    Former leader of the UNDEAD alliance on US-Lambda (R.I.P.)

    Administrator/Bureaucrat of WikIkariam - the English language Ikariam wiki

    I ask because I want to make an excel file with upgrades to see how much gold and glass I need to upgrade army and fleet to level 20