Leeching

Quote from Barbarian

For context, this player has donated 102K to the mill, and 100K to the quarry. The mill is level 38 and the quarry is level 32.

I mean you can do the math yourself more or less.

Whether the RoI is worth it or not, depends on how many Players would donate, how many Ressources you get afterwards, how much the next level costs and so on.

Depending on the situation it would very well take multiple years till you get your investment back, especially on these levels and with less and less players on each Island.

At some point it's just straight up not worth it, because even if you get those ressources back in 5+ years, you could have upgraded smth else.

Quote from Barbarian

I recently posted in the agora asking my fellow island friends to increase their donations to the mill and quarry as the donations to them have dried up quite significantly (I'll happily put my hands up and say I haven't been as active in donating as I feel I should). However, one person on the island was very unhappy with my request, stating that the return on investment wasn't worth it and that leeching was a thing of the past due to the occasional daily task that rewards those who donate on the day with favour. Now I think this is a load of BS from a professional leecher on every island they have a town seeing as their account is over 7 years old with a donation score of approx 92K.

They threatened to publicly humiliate me on the forums for asking them to donate, and seeing as they still haven't done so, here I am to do it myself I guess. What do people think about leeching in 2024?

For context, this player has donated 102K to the mill, and 100K to the quarry. The mill is level 38 and the quarry is level 32. I'll add my own donations in case anyone wants that information. 13M to the mill, 10M to the quarry.

I'm genuinely curious to hear people's thoughts on this

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I donate almost alone,I don't ask about it,but it should be done by all future seeing players.At some point it's worth it,in some occasions it might be a wrong move to donate,all is needed is communication between players or a strong and decisive plan from you how you will increase your resources income,and from your investment,you will gain respect from the others.

I've had experiences of this kind of players, both with donations and priests; speaking of donations, usually, after multiple messages, I feel it is not worth the time anymore, but if you like pillaging, you can always pillage his resources and donate them in his place.

Different story for priests and faith: I think that having empty temples in Poseidon or Hephaistos islands is very selfish, and could deserve military intervention. I am currently dealing with a player who doesn't want to put priests to work because he thinks that they are a waste of money. It is totally fine to have different strategies, but it shows a lack of respect for all the other player who cannot have max lvl faith; it is not a total score matter, because when you have 40/50 mil temple's building score is so irrelevant.

I recall times when there were gentlemen agreements on this stuff; disrupting a miracle was a step towards battle and war.

the best way to deal with leeches is military action.. however.. I've been dealing with 3 difference leeches on my islands since the start of covid.. 2 of them was created for the sole purpose of leeching (they're not played, just build up enough to kill the wonder), they don't mine anything, they don't' build anything, they just sit collecting gold.

the 3rd wasn't purpose built but is someones secondary so they're effectively in gold mode and there is nothing you can do to that kinda player.

Hopefully you have someone who actually wants to play where your hostility will gain compliance.

Quote from Barbarian

Ikariam is a long term game so even if the mine upgrades take 5 years to pay off for example I still see that as worthwhile.

Well that's your opinion and it's fine, but obv. donations are something where people have to work together so if others don't agree with your opinion, you gotta respect that aswell.

Especially if there are alternatives that pay off earlier for them.

In my opinion, donations should always be voluntary. Of course, you can try to remind or politely ask to donate but that's it. The term 'donate' shouldn't have anything to do with the term 'mandatory'.

Don't like that other neighbors don't donate? That's your problem, feel free to donate as much as you want.

Quote from Barbarian

However, one person on the island was very unhappy with my request, stating that the return on investment wasn't worth it

Unfortunately this is pretty much correct, even with the Shrine. And especially with sparsely-populated islands. Hopefully Gameforge will implement something along the line of the Employment Bureau that I suggested a while back.

I do hope there's some way of increasing production. I'm building GR14s right now and looking at GR15s I see that each one requires ~55M resources, which is about what one of my colonies produces in a year.

Quote from Quartz

I do hope there's some way of increasing production. I'm building GR14s right now and looking at GR15s I see that each one requires ~55M resources, which is about what one of my colonies produces in a year.

How can this happen after the gods shrine ? I think that we need a boost more too

Quote from Quartz

and looking at GR15s I see that each one requires ~55M resources, which is about what one of my colonies produces in a year.

I don't see where the problem is.

Higher production just pushes the problem of "there's nothing to do" to an earlier stage, as it was before v8.8.0.

And that's imo the worst thing, if there's nothing to do at all, so better have some longterm building-projects instead.

Of course, if there were other huge projects, Events and so on then it would be fine to increase the production, but right now this would just move us again into a situation with players stopping playing because there's nothing to do.

Quote from Barbarian

Ikariam is a long term game so even if the mine upgrades take 5 years to pay off for example I still see that as worthwhile. Plus these mine levels aren't even high really.

The guy made threats so I pillaged him, he complained on the agora that I was targeting him and he promptly hit vmode.

It really depends on the mine levels and how many people are on the island. I wouldn't donate anymore if it would take me multiple years to get my wood back from the new gained mine level.

As an example, even with near perfect conditions (17 players on an island, each with 85% from the shrine and 32+ level forester's) it would take about a year for level 40 to pay off. For level 50 we talk about 8 years, even under these perfect conditions, for this level alone. If you sum up all the previous levels as well, it gets clear pretty quickly that somewhere in the lower 40s there is a point where it's not benefical anymore to donate (for the saw mill). If you have fewer players, it gets worse, obviously.

For your example with the 38 mill we are looking at 0.8 yrs for the mill, and a lot shorter for the level 32 quarry if you value marble higher than wood (again perfect conditions, but reasonable times even for fewer players). Under these circumstances, I'd say donating is still worth it, and especially the 92k donation score on a 7-year-old account would sting.

Definitely a case to think about taking some action imo.

Quote from Barbarian

I agree that donations should be voluntary. At the end of the day, the only person able to donate from that account is the owner so if you make threats the likelihood is that they just won't and either you accept that or you pillage them. However I'm a bit torn over the mandatory part. If a new player who has never played Ikariam before asked for advice on how to play the game, one of the pieces of advice I'd give them is that they should donate to their mills/mines.

On my islands Im a not a stickler for mine donations, I am however on faith.. it's a guaranteed way of getting my attention.

Whether you feel strongly enough to attack someone over it is up to you.. I'll take every thing they have and make the game unplayable for them.. sure they can go into gold mode for spite but that's all it'll be.. dead account.

But you have to be a fairly large size to dictate like that.. or very aggressive either way.

But there are ways around that.. assuming you have other island neighbors what you do is get everyone else to hate that person and make their life miserable, this only works if the player in question is actually wanting to play the game though and it's not a secondary account they dont' care about or one they made for the purpose of ruining your island.

Your demands have to be reasonable though, everyone has a different idea of whats a fair donation rate but you can't ask someone with 3m TS to donate as much as someone who has 30m TS, You also have to consider how many towns that person has, I would expect more out of someone with 3 towns then someone with 1 town on the island.

One thing is for sure if we have another merger I will be moving all my towns to an island where I have full control.

At one time my island chain was populated almost entirely with alliance mates but sadly many have dropped out of the game over these last few years leaving huge gaps for rifraff to wonder in.. as ugly as it is people with multi accounts plugging up town slots is a smart move.

But GF is resistant to change anything, they say it's a "shared resource", ya.. everyone takes but only some give, and the only way to improve the situation is to pull the weight (donations) that was designed for an entire island to contribute towards.

Dev's probably thought the incentive of better mines would get people to co-op but why? when you can do nothing and someone else is willing to fund it them selves.

So we get threads talking about how expensive the mine upgrades are.. ya they are, they're hellishly expensive if you're doing it all by your self.

The game is broken is on many ways.

Quote from Flummi

It really depends on the mine levels and how many people are on the island. I wouldn't donate anymore if it would take me multiple years to get my wood back from the new gained mine level.

As an example, even with near perfect conditions (17 players on an island, each with 85% from the shrine and 32+ level forester's) it would take about a year for level 40 to pay off. For level 50 we talk about 8 years, even under these perfect conditions, for this level alone. If you sum up all the previous levels as well, it gets clear pretty quickly that somewhere in the lower 40s there is a point where it's not benefical anymore to donate (for the saw mill). If you have fewer players, it gets worse, obviously.

I agree the mines do have a point where their cost recovery becomes long and longer, however if everyone is donating regularly it's not that bad.

That's the problem though.. most people do not donate regularly.. I see lots of island where you have 1 or 2 people who are carrying the island.. im not saying their aren't some islands out there where everyone is working at it.. but they are the exception not the rule in my exp.

I wish GF would just privatize the mines and wonder.. It would be one thing if there was a way for other players to socially enforce their own rules

but the game is very limited in that, most actions will cost you more than the defender.

the only time it makes sense is if they have goods to take, you can't touch their gold no matter how much they have, 1bl gold nope leave that guys we want the lumber.. oh they ain't got no lumber? okay sorry for waiting your time we'll just go home now.

Oh I'll show them I'll occupy them.. ya you sit there wasting gold in their towns.

God help you if the account was actually a secondary one they don't care about or even worse one they made for the sole purpose of griefing you.

Maybe a building that multiplies the donations ?

Quote from Ultra Instinct

Maybe a building that multiplies the donations ?

You mean treating the Carpenter like the way the Optician boosts the RPs gained from Experiments? Already suggested by yours truly. I have also suggested an Employment Bureau.

Quote from Quartz

Quote from Ultra Instinct

Maybe a building that multiplies the donations ?

You mean treating the Carpenter like the way the Optician boosts the RPs gained from Experiments? Already suggested by yours truly. I have also suggested an Employment Bureau.

A building that works like that and it depends on the level of the building and the amount of wood you have donated and multiplies your next donation,and thereafter.Something that works for the players and Gameforge,it's a big deal to give more access to that point of the game,more choices,some new buildings such as you mentioned that give a meaning to loyal players of the game to expand more,and more!