Slinger attack level 23
Hoplites armour +50 , attack i do not remeber
Spearman levels 12/19
Forge active
Slingers attack lev 24
Hoplites +60 armour ( that is with 20 base armour and forge 100 armour so immune to barbarian second line )
Hoplites +50 attack
Forge active
Oh, barbarians. Yes, the barbarians don't get any upgrades, but you'd still need 36 to 40 armor upgrades to make that possible.
I don't see why this is a problem.
I try to explain that these percentages below are not the whole picture.
Plus, upgrades have diminishing returns. Going from 95 armor to 100 armor is ~5.3% improvement. From 100 to 105 is a 5% improvement. And from 105 to 110 a 4.76% improvement.
So maybe invest in one more up or 2 even very expensive but can have sense.
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There is no way that a game which is played over decades should allow you to burn an entire fleet within minutes, by avoiding regular round durations.
Well, not in minutes, since there is action point limitation, even with general banks if you are alone you need some hours to continually send fake missions, but usually people have a sleep time of some hours so the destruction is feasible.
But with fakes you can think of avoid them by moving while being offline.
Very disgusting tatic is the multiimpact so that even you have a big fleet and you are online if you engage in defense you can only stay watching your opponent continually impacts your fleet and makes 3 round every 15 min + 2-3 sec.
This is why i hope there will be new units in the future.
Maybe there was a misunderstanding in one of my previous posts. I mean free units reachable by all players.
But the aim should be that if you can afford 200k gen, with new stronger but more expensive unit you can produce and maintain a number of troops
equivalent to that of 10 or 20k now.
So you can both resolve big generals fight in hours instead days, and avoid or mitigate massive fake and multimpact strategies because even for big account
should become proibitive maintain tons of new more expensive units.
They can't become mathematically immune to knifeman (I'm going to assume you mean swordsman because a swordsman has a base attack of 200) attacks because you can also upgrade the attack of the swordsman, too. So yes, if you do 40 upgrades to your swordsman's armor and attack someone who has never upgraded their swordsman, you would receive 0 damage.
If someone has 40/40 upgraded swordsmen and attacks someone who has 0/0 upgraded swordsman, I'm perfectly fine with that being a complete rout. I don't know why anyone would even be concerned about this scenario.
Knifeman is the name of the barbarian unit.
For what i know barbarians does not have ups, so if you up swordsman to +200 armour ( or +180 +20 of forge) you mathematically can farm barbarian without lose any swoardsman
Bigger accounts can have more gold, generals etc but when it comes to fighting they have no advantage in battle.
False.
Bigger account with bigger generals and general banks can dispose of tons of paddles and balloons to fake you.
Wars in old servers can go in 2 directions:
1) infinite battles where both part can produce more than killed units
2) fake or multiimpact strategy.
Personally none of them is funny for my and that is why since December 2024 i have stopped trying to be competitive in wars.
Plus, upgrades have diminishing returns. Going from 95 armor to 100 armor is ~5.3% improvement. From 100 to 105 is a 5% improvement. And from 105 to 110 a 4.76% improvement.
These percentage are not all.
If you up swordmen armor from + 195 to 200 they become mathematically immune to knifeman attacks and you do need doctors anymore for them, so maybe can worth the investment
Moreover in some situation being even only one up in advance can give you a big advantage like lose 4 subs or only 2 ,
or even more OP avoid losing balloon.
Some players enjoy the playstyle of sniping entire fleets within minutes. The defender usually doesnt like having to monitor the game 24/7 to avoid getting sniped. Personally, I think the interaction between 5/5 carriers and paddles vs 0/0 rockets, carriers, and paddles is a little too strong, and Im not sure if this is healthy for the game.
If you use subs, there is more possibility now to lose only 2 subs instead of 4. This should mitigate fakes.
In other words if you want to mitigate fake you have to invest all you have only in paddle attacks and subs armour, and avoid using rockets at all.
Still better avoid to keep fleet at all.
This is a screen before v 14.
As you can see Spartans were already balanced, since they still died and they are not able to completely wipe out the opponents formation.
Obviousely since they are paid units they were a bit better than hoplites.
Unfortunately with v. 14 they could become like upped hoplites.
most paid things should be either cosmetic or for convenience... NOT for direct effectiveness and advantage
Honestly are there stupid players who paid for things that does not give direct effectiveness and advantage?
Why should i paid for something that does not give me some kind of advantage?
In ikariam there is only one units that is a paid units among all land and sea units. There are no other units, skills or wonders that are p2w.
Moreover before infinte horizon a big economy did not granted a direct advantage against your opponent since your army could grow only in number and no in strength.
If attacker and defender are online the defender was always in advantage ( attacker's missions visibility, control of the garrison, walls, instant munition reloading in own polis).
Moreover with multies, friends and general banks, that are al free features, you can block spots on islands and prevent other people to attack you without spend any money.
So you are complaining about what?
Here the real p2w feature are the new ups. Since ups are infinite and now are +5 /+10 whales can spend tons of money to buy or produce faster tons of crystals and have armies that can completely overcome other players armies, including spartans.
The worst thing?
Ups does not count for total score, so you can grow in a server for years, making ups and then move to an other server and have a big gap in ups with normal players of that server.
they are already simply better than standard options for any starting account...it's just normal that in time, after lots of investments you should have better normal options..don't you think?
It is not normal. Since they are a p2w feature that player could have bought BEFORE the v. 14.0.0 it is not fair that with v. 14.0.0 they can easly lose all their advantage.
Moreover p2w features must remain above the others, otherwise nobody will buy them and there won't be incomes for the game itself.
I have not proposed an increase of their stats, i have wrote
there should be a way to upgrade also spartans
that can be an other paid option, for examples upgrade spartans using ambrosia.
Back to the v 14.0.0
With v 14.0.0 an hoplite can reach the same armour of a Spartan with level 20 defense up and the same attack of a Spartan with level 40 attack up
Obviousely these levels are very expensive to reach but in a some month or years i think they are reachable for already big account focusing on crystal and gold.
So badidol i think there should be a way to upgrade also spartans, otherwise they will lose their sense to be.
I think now with these values ups have sense, expecially to farm barbarians easly,
but i very hope to see a new group of units in the future, more expensive but also more strong, in order to take a proper use of new levels of barracks, black markets and so on, and reach the goal of keeping battles not going forever in late game while not changing anything in the battle system
the bonus granted by the workshop upgrades for Land and Sea units is now 5 times higher than before
Is this currently already applied in the test server?
Let D the damage, A the attack value before infinite horizon 2 and R the armour value before infinite horizon 2
considering forge
before infinte horizon 2: D= A*1,2 - R - 2
After infinte horizon 2 : D=20*A*1,2 - 20*R - 2
= 20*(before) +38
After the patch : D= 20*A*1,15 - 20*R -20 = 20*A*1,2 - 20*A*0,05 - 20*R - 40+20
= 20*(before) - A +20
=horizon2 - A - 18
I do not see the point of this change..... really i do not see the point.
If the purpose had been to adjust forge, they should have put
D= 20*A*1,2 - 20*R -20*2 so simply scale the increase of the armour to +40, but no
Instead the act like office complication simple business
Then they ask for a feedback. badidol
But the point is, why do you have done such a thing? Because personally i would like to know the aim because of the change to give a proper feedback.
Trying to explain, if i do something pratical and someone arrives and gives me a feedback only on external appearence is not a proper feedback. At least it is not complete.
Moreover, it is not clear about the user composition of the test server. Are GF sure to reach a proper feedback of the majority of the total amount of player?
For example even with speedups my account is at the very beginning so it will be impossible to test a lot of round of naval combats with all units.
My serious fear is that managers are not able to think of strategies or changes to give ikariam something new but balanced and enjoyable for a lot of users.
Usually players do not have a complete vision of games.
Take advantage of miracles like Forge is good only if you have forge, so a feedback of a very active war oriented player could go to have the most op forge possible, but if happen ( and it can happen since players also have a real life) that you are found without forge and you lose all your army while you opponent not suffer any losses, it is possible that you also lose your will to play.
I think leave the game in the hand of some players' feedback is very riskfull. A serious company should be
1) test by itself new versions, not let players to test. For example if you have tested infinte horizon before ,and you have seen all deployed balloons die with forge, is clear the version cannot be released that way.
2) monitor the game by itself with statistics, in game questionaries and so on, and make thougthfull changes. Not acting like a child not sure of what he want and at the mercy of not well defined feedbacks. The handling of the last merge has been ridicoulous. The lack of limitations to vacancy mode-general banks-server migration mattern for years is again ridicoulous.
Still an advantage for gap based players.
Maybe is not a pay to win but a pay to gap.
Lvl 46. Barbarians... Currently forge is one of the most useless micrale in the game...
and this is 45 lvl results
I could pillage barbars easily with 500k account then but now it is not worthy even with +10 million account... They should change that in the next versions or goodbye barbarians and forge.
The main difference is in swordmen,
In flanks there are 2 different causes
1) Forge armour has not been adjusted so knifemen make more swordmen death
2) The division total_damage/barbarian_life is not an integer anymore so swordmen use an other pattern to calculate barbarians deaths.
This swordmen -knifemen new behaviour can be disappointed but i think the main problem of this version is all ballons die in PvP, so they have become an unhelpful unit.
And what i ask myself is at what purpose GF put the new version before in the test server if then all those matterns about battles are not monitored and ave gone straight to normal serves.
At first i thought all the changes were voluntary but now I'm starting to think they just increased the unit values without realizing the possible situations and for examples they simply have forgotten to adeguate forge. Like a serious company they are. Managers and progammers have ever played this game?
You can make an upper estimate with all deployable units for each line except for second line and anti-air. Moreover in the naval combat you can max lose 6 third line units because maximum deployable ballons are 6.
12 flames kills up to 21 steams,24 waves 15 steams and 2 carriers. So far the 12 wave is the best bang for the buck and they are not upgraded. 1000 flames will decimate 1000 steams and you dont lose so many steams. I have tried every wave imaginable and the 12 kills the 3 opposing boxes of steams every time.
But have you ever played only with rokets and mortars in the back?
The guy im fighting with has 880 tenders but i dont see the advantage. One thing we have noticed in the 900 round sea battles were in is flame waves of 12,24 or 36 almost allways kill the whole box of steam rams. I dont know if it has anything to do with the update but everyone in our battles is flame waving now.
It is also possible that in this version if you do not want to wave is it more convenient to deploy full fire ships instead of full steams rams
First of all this should reduce the number of tenders you need to healt all
I don't understand. That doesn't make any sense. All other units have the same level of upgrades, your steams have level 6 attack and level 5 armour the enemy 10 level attack and armour, and yet he has more loses?
What are the upgrades on paddles an balloons? The difference in rocket ships can explain all ( or almost) about first line losses, so the main focus should be on paddle/balloons diversity
Trying to explain the situation in flanks
before the new version
swordman attack (10+3)* 1,2 ~15
(barbarians swordmen have no armour)
15*42=630 ( NB: the attack groups of swordmen is [36,42,42,42,42,36] according to AM theory)
630/18=35. So in the past version the losses in "central" slots are calculated by using a simple division total damage/ life
After the new version and the up of post 252
swordman attack (200+8) * 1.2 ~ 249
249*42=10458
but 10458 is not divisible by 360 ( 360 is the new life of barbarian swordmen)
So the losses this time are calculated in an other way.
And no, the problem is not only in the flags, if you notice, before the upgrade I lost 12 giants, after I lost 23
The difference in giants is caused by the difference in balloons : less ballons, more barbarias artillery, more giant lost.
The very worrying situation is in flanks and in ballons
I think you're talking about this.
Ikariam Battle System
After the update it has become invalid, right?
Some situations could become invalid, for example if in that paper is written a certain amount of unit kill a certain amount of an other unit ( es: 3 rokets kill 1 steam ram) now it can be false since now the forge effect with the new base units values causes more damage.
But the battle system itself is the same. The attacking matrix theory, the redistribution damage theory ecc ecc is the same.
Unfortunately i was not able to understand and reproduce the battle system itself completely, even if it is deterministic ( that means same starting situation, same ending situation)
In the past that was not a big problem because you only need to test and collect data.
Now every player can have different ups, and there is the possibility that with different combination of them killed units and damage redistribution are different. And of course you cannot undone ups so you may fall in a situation where an up cause a disadvantage instead of an advantage, and is not possible to test all possible combination of ups , so in a certain sense battle are left to chance. No real chance, obviously there is always the same algorithm running but since we do not know it is like chance for players.
According to the screens the most effective change is in the flanks
This is because the battle system does not always use the same way to calculate losses and distribute damage, so in some cases a lot of potential damage can be lost
I tried to investigate it several years in the past but i reach no conclusion.
Have someone verify if the 5 ballons wave in naval crs continue to work or not?
