A fix for the Black Market

  • There has been much debate about the Black Market recently and whether or not it should removed from the game. I do believe it should be removed from the game due to the issues it is causing with the MS banks staying in vacation mode and traveling server to server to sell troops for out of game currency. HOWEVER I know the community disagrees so I offer a compromise to the problem.


    The compromise is this, instead of removing the building from the game each player may build only one per account and there is a weekly cap on the troops and ships a player may buy.


    Proposed weekly Caps as follows:


    Hoplites: 2,000

    Steam Giant: 500

    Sword: 2,000

    Spears: 5,000

    Slingers: 5,000

    Archers: 2,000

    Sulfur Carabineers: 500

    Rams: 200

    Catapults: 200

    Mortars: 100

    Gyros: 500

    Balloons: 100

    Doctor: 100

    Chef: 100

    Spartan: 500


    Fire Ship: 500

    Steam Ram: 100

    Ram Ship: 500

    Ballista: 100

    Catapult Ship: 100

    Rocket Ship: 100

    Diving Boat: 100

    Paddle Speedboat: 100

    Balloon Carrier: 50

    Tender: 20

  • caps are definitely an interesting solution


    another alternative might be to remove the ability to use gold in the black market or tradepost. having to commit resources (marble, etc.) and the tradeships to transport them, has several benefits, not the least of which, it would address multiple abuses in both the tradepost and blackmarket.


    Of course, people have been taking advantage of this a long time, so they'll likely complain if they have to use actual resources than merely stocked up gold.


    that's the trouble, once these things are added, once they show to have issues, people don't want them to go.


    it's the game design issue of the "must have" item in a game. usually a must-have item is something needing fixing - but those aware of the must-have item will scream like child having their candy taken away.


    So unless the game producers/makers look past that, nothing will be fixed.


    Anyway, caps are definitely an interesting idea, just prepared to hear that the cap values are arbitrary, or even unnecessary.


    "We wants it, my precious"


    : )

  • I guess I have an opinion on everything that has been going on here for weeks. I'll be talking as an ikariam player, not a moderator. Some players here can't accept the fact that now there are lots of features added to the game that made it completely different from the one played in 2008. They can't accept that some other players managed to get the maximum benefit of these featuress with their own strategies of playing while they couldn't do great with them. Things as Black Market and Piracy made something I like to call "A mini game" inside the game. Some players focus on these things to gather more resources or troops and raise their Total score. This is called being smart and nothing else. However, I believe that if someone (for example) is using black market to gain money out of game, maybe that is something that should be reported to support, instead of putting limits on players who put their best skills in such features.


    Let's accept that the gameplay should be free, and that means no limits on black market, no limits on Pillage, no limits to trade resources, no limits to raid piracy points; and any kind of gameplay should be accepted by everyone and it's not "cheating" and it's not "unfair" as long as it doesn't break any Game Rules which are already clear to everyone.


    Have fun, please. :)

  • Just add a feature like the daily bonus. "Where you want the wine?" --> "Which black-market you want to use for this week?". This plus a cap that scale in % of your points will do the work. Cause not every BM is used for bad intentioned move. Some of them just trade army in order to avoid a neg-gap, or farm some army in order to help an ally. Dont assume all of the BM are illegally purposed.

    Or maybe a extra charge when you reach 10k gen --> +Xgold / 100kgen -->+XXgold on the total ammount. This might be useless cause the same player who buy 100k gen can administrate the gold exchanged in the process so.. yea. I will go with "cap in %"+"Chose one".

  • Sorry for the multi but i cant edit.


    Things as Black Market and Piracy made something I like to call "A mini game" inside the game. Some players focus on these things to gather more resources or troops and raise their Total score. This is called being smart and nothing else. However, I believe that if someone (for example) is using black market to gain money out of game, maybe that is something that should be reported to support, instead of putting limits on players who put their best skills in such features.

    I would really like to agree with you, but no. BM and Piracy were both a good idea, but without boundaries. The BM is currently abused for stock up gen on "ally account". Expl. One of your ally leave the game. He give you credential, you leave the alliance, do the "share id thing", buy every gen possible and V-mode. Legal and you have from 500k to ?kk gen ready for war.

    This is a cheat, surely "smart move", but still a cheat.

    Piracy was even worst. Multi aside, on the early day of piracy, big players were forming contract with small players. You farm for me, i will give you % fo resources at the end of the event. You wont farm for me? Well gl with that. There was no choice. Farm for them or became a farm anyway. Is that "legal"? Yea maybe. Is that fair? No. Is enjoyable? BigF-No. There was a counterplay? No, you cant counter 10 account farming 10k per day each.

    All of the, so called "smart move", are in fact cowardice. And they need to be fixed. Cause all of this things, and even worst, still run without rules, ruining the game.

  • I would really like to agree with you, but no. BM and Piracy were both a good idea, but without boundaries. The BM is currently abused for stock up gen on "ally account". Expl. One of your ally leave the game. He give you credential, you leave the alliance, do the "share id thing", buy every gen possible and V-mode. Legal and you have from 500k to ?kk gen ready for war.


    Piracy was even worst. Multi aside, on the early day of piracy, big players were forming contract with small players. You farm for me, i will give you % fo resources at the end of the event. You wont farm for me? Well gl with that. There was no choice. Farm for them or became a farm anyway. Is that "legal"? Yea maybe. Is that fair? No. Is enjoyable? BigF-No. There was a counterplay? No, you cant counter 10 account farming 10k per day each.

    Some of what you said here fall under cicumventing the rules of multi accounts and others fall under pushing; so what you're saying isn't 100% legal. That kind of gameplay is circumventing the game rules, but unfortunately they do it really well that you can't catch them in the act and report them to GOs. However, I do remember some friends getting banned for such gameplay because simply they got caught doing it. So, you have a very good point here. However, I believe that stocking up gens between allies isn't really cheating unless it involves circumventing account sharing rules.

    Maybe the developers need to take a closer look at the mentioned issues and close the gaps in the game rules to prevent such things from happening and for us we may need to chill and enjoy and catch some cheaters in the act. ;)

  • However, I believe that stocking up gens between allies isn't really cheating unless it involves circumventing account sharing rules.

    I got your point, and, true. Stoking up gen dont fall under "cheat" folder. But, how its done? Yes. I dont talk about 100k-200k to X player who continuously trade resources for gold in order to maintain that amount of gen. I talk about 500k or plus. There's no way an account can afford that, especially if the gen are out of town. Unless buying ton of gold with ambro, which is fine cause is a game feature and you spend real money so I win morally.

    However, in the way i describe it. Y exit alliance after getting X acco + share id. So Y play with X account legally cause there s nothing going on between them ( no trade, no attack/def/ecc, no same ally). Then buy all the gen possible --> V-mode --> Y back in alliance with his account. That's legal, i might be wrong though. And if it's legal is a cheat. No one is paying for that ammount of gen. No one can destroy that ammount of gen.

    Giving a cap to the BM will do the work as i said. X buy from Z ???gen, calculated from max army affordable in town by Z starting from max gold/h (a bit of a trouble with that cause army have different cost, so maybe taking the most expensive class as reference, still a bit wrong but is easy and fast) and only one time a week. Same for A,S,D,...

    Result: X will have a ridiculous ammount of gen and still able to V-mode, so the trick stays alive. But the other players will be able to buy only the max-cap-gen once per week. So the enemy alliance can deal with that instead finding 10 players with insane gen number directed towards that island. Still able to find "NowUrScrwed" popping out in some alliance-island with enough gen to win against the entire server though, but that's an ID problem since "NowUrScrwed" left the game time ago. The IP problem is a tough one, but illegal Acco-sharing can ben avoided giving a one-time-code who read the the Motherboard ID and associate it with the account ID number, idk if its possible, just wondering. Trouble with that too, change pc, change motherboard.. So, on a new log-in (or a new player registration) with different M-ID force the VPN off (Travian do that) in order to log in again and save the IP. Riscky, not sure its legal, but it works. People will find another way around? For sure, but it requires some knowledge, time and a strong will.



    With that being said, i'm chilling. I cant even play the game rn man, i found a spot for a new town just now, but its 2 and half h away, Eph-wine though.

  • I see. Such a long process to cicumvent rules which makes the suggestions valid. Most of what you explain is still circumventing rules and can't be legal. I am not really aware with it since I don't play this way and find no fun doing all of this. Let's just hope the merge issues are solved.

  • I guess I have an opinion on everything that has been going on here for weeks. I'll be talking as an ikariam player, not a moderator. Some players here can't accept the fact that now there are lots of features added to the game that made it completely different from the one played in 2008. They can't accept that some other players managed to get the maximum benefit of these featuress with their own strategies of playing while they couldn't do great with them. Things as Black Market and Piracy made something I like to call "A mini game" inside the game. Some players focus on these things to gather more resources or troops and raise their Total score. This is called being smart and nothing else. However, I believe that if someone (for example) is using black market to gain money out of game, maybe that is something that should be reported to support, instead of putting limits on players who put their best skills in such features.


    Let's accept that the gameplay should be free, and that means no limits on black market, no limits on Pillage, no limits to trade resources, no limits to raid piracy points; and any kind of gameplay should be accepted by everyone and it's not "cheating" and it's not "unfair" as long as it doesn't break any Game Rules which are already clear to everyone.


    Have fun, please. :)

    Listing a bunch of things you want doesn't make you "free". It may however indicate you're short-sighted.


    I could add to your list:


    we should be able to freely pillage gold


    we should be able to freely destroy other players' buildings.


    We should be able to demolish/de-level mills and mines


    the wonders should not be restricted.


    We shouldn't have timers and should get instant gratification on everything we want.


    and on, and on.. meh


    Oh and, the black market isn't a "mini-game".


    But again, I'm not surprised at your response. "I wants it" is the never ending cry.


    Regardless, this discussion is fairly moot, as obviously GF is no longer doing any sort of case-study analysis of the game. Much less listen to us on the boards.


    Badidol cured me of that misapprehension.

  • One of the peculiarities of the Black Market is that you can much more easily buy ships than troops. For ships you send off one cargo ship loaded with gold and come back with a fleet; with troops you have to send sufficient cargo ships to bring them back. You can send one cargo ship to each of umpteen Black Markets simultaneously, thus garnering a large fleet very quickly. This has led to a much greater focus on the naval aspect. I suggest neutralising this. Make it so that when purchasing naval units you need to send cargo ships in relation to their upkeep: one space per gold. A Balloon Carrier requires 100 gold per hour upkeep so one cargo ship can bring back 5 Balloon Carrier ships. Or maybe per one space per 5 gold. Adjust for researches.

    [mod]Moved from a sole thread - Kikoguns[/mod]

  • Hello, all people


    I understand this big problem with the markets, The big problem is that you can buy any amount of boats with one merchant ship. When you wanna buy landforce the're is a natural cap of you're available merchant ships.


    So I have maybe a solution for this problem If gameforce would like to change things.


    In order to buy landforce you need one merchant ship to transport 100 hoplites

    Why not apply the same rule for fleets

    If you wanna buy boats you need the neccesary crew to buy those boats

    example

    For a ramship you need 3 civilians

    So you can buy with one merchant ship 33 ramships ( 3 times 33 is 99 crewmembers)


    In this case you can only buy a limit amount of boats base on the capacity of you're merchant ships.


    What impact would this change have on the game?

    It would take more time and effort to buy a complete fleet.

    You also limit the amount of gold that can be traded between 2 players

    The rest will be the same


    This might not be the solution many players would like to see but It would at least be possible

    to slow down those people that abuse this system.


    Greetings

    Embio

  • I believe you're giving invalid points as pilaging gold, demolishing buildings and such was never intended to be in ikariam but black market and piracy are already in the game and they have been like that for years now. Suddenly deciding to cap them will be unfair to lots of players who already gain advantage of these features. For me, I don't go for black market and piracy much as I prefer to focus on fighting and gaining offensive points and top my alliance. Others go for black market and that may sound unfair to some of us but it's there and been like that for years so why don't we adapt and keep enjoying the game?
    "I want it" is never something for me. I just want to enjoy the game and help everyone as much as I can. :)

  • Making things harder is the best idea in my opinion. I guess it's the only way to limit the kind of stocking gens that some players do. Best idea, man :)

  • I see. Such a long process to cicumvent rules which makes the suggestions valid. Most of what you explain is still circumventing rules and can't be legal. I am not really aware with it since I don't play this way and find no fun doing all of this. Let's just hope the merge issues are solved.

    Its not that long compared to gameplay velocity and i dont use BM yet so. Just a memo on how people use it.

    The issues with that is you have to "make up" this ammount of civilians, you cant take them away from town. It works in game, but it doesn't make sense.


    And what if they are on the same island so for land no boats needed, same for sea? not sure about that

  • Hi,

    OutlawRacer666,

    Do you think, there is other stuff to do rather than to speak about the black market..

    Please, go to play with the young, black market is not important for you.

    Black market doesn't have the right to be cancel. It is a very good tool on the game

  • I guess I have an opinion on everything that has been going on here for weeks. I'll be talking as an ikariam player, not a moderator. Some players here can't accept the fact that now there are lots of features added to the game that made it completely different from the one played in 2008. They can't accept that some other players managed to get the maximum benefit of these featuress with their own strategies of playing while they couldn't do great with them. Things as Black Market and Piracy made something I like to call "A mini game" inside the game. Some players focus on these things to gather more resources or troops and raise their Total score. This is called being smart and nothing else. However, I believe that if someone (for example) is using black market to gain money out of game, maybe that is something that should be reported to support, instead of putting limits on players who put their best skills in such features.


    Let's accept that the gameplay should be free, and that means no limits on black market, no limits on Pillage, no limits to trade resources, no limits to raid piracy points; and any kind of gameplay should be accepted by everyone and it's not "cheating" and it's not "unfair" as long as it doesn't break any Game Rules which are already clear to everyone.


    Have fun, please. :)

    We don't care about whether the game is different from 2008, we care about things being broken.


    The black market is not a "mini game", it is a means to purchase ships and troops. Players warping towns to different servers for transactions outside the game can't be proven, but we know it's happening. How're we supposed to report this to a MOD without the proof? It's not being "Smart", it's cheating. We have 11 of the top 20 players in vacation mode with over 200k points in MS.


    'it's not unfair" How is it not unfair that 3 alliances can have millions of stored MS while the hundreds of smaller alliances will be at a disadvantage to the top alliances having this much ms power?

  • We don't care about whether the game is different from 2008, we care about things being broken.


    The black market is not a "mini game", it is a means to purchase ships and troops. Players warping towns to different servers for transactions outside the game can't be proven, but we know it's happening. How're we supposed to report this to a MOD without the proof? It's not being "Smart", it's cheating. We have 11 of the top 20 players in vacation mode with over 200k points in MS.


    'it's not unfair" How is it not unfair that 3 alliances can have millions of stored MS while the hundreds of smaller alliances will be at a disadvantage to the top alliances having this much ms power?

    I remember an old retired player called Hannibal Lecter. He played on almost every EN server and I was lucky to be with him on his last server before retirement. he bet everyone of these players you're referring to and didn't care much of the fact that they are cicumventing the game rules and that was my point. You're complaining about something that GF will never change and wasting your time.


    BTW, game exploits are reported to GOs not Mods. We have nothing to do with the game exploits. We moderate the forum, and if you read my posts from the beginning, I was talking as an ikariam player who has played for a decade. :)