Non registered IP multis being used via VPN.

  • General Deliverance, [13.08.20 14:01]

    do you remember WARNING's name?


    Soheel

    I think


    General Deliverance, [13.08.20 14:02]

    yes - what about his real name


    General Deliverance, [13.08.20 14:02]

    soheel was his alt and I thought that means warning


    This is real name


    General Deliverance, [13.08.20 14:03]

    ah ok my mistake


    It's real name also one of his accounts


    Soheel , warning , dr lotus , gigatron , hercules 50 anaximenes , saftar khatar

    There are others , can't remember

    Wiki

    _roham_

    Maybe silent killer


    General Deliverance, [13.08.20 14:05]

    be esghe babak phantom?



    Maybe

    Maybe he is running them or one of babaks brothers in Germany (not necessarily Hamburg)


    There are some accounts I think death running em

    Randy , unforgiven , neo , ehtesham L0rd v0lderm0rt L0rd, diablo

  • PGA gen bank. Only taken out of v.mode to arm

    pga VPN alt accounts. With only 42 million gold you can bet the guy that gets his ships and troops here also runs the account. He fires up his vpn,logs in and puts the ships or troops up for sale and then buys them with his other account. They have been doing this same scam for years and years now.


    Search results for 'I_R_A_N' of the Generals highscore list!

    8 I_R_A_N icon-palm.png P G A 6,187,033
  • PGA gen bank. Only taken out of v.mode to arm

    pga VPN alt accounts. With only 42 million gold you can bet the guy that gets his ships and troops here also runs the account. He fires up his vpn,logs in and puts the ships or troops up for sale and then buys them with his other account. They have been doing this same scam for years and years now.


    Search results for 'I_R_A_N' of the Generals highscore list!

    8 I_R_A_N icon-palm.png P G A 6,187,033

    The 24 hour ban on trades through a black market on ANYONE coming out of v.mode ends this whole gen bank problem.

    These gen banks only exist for one reason and thats for illegal multi users to get a very unfair advantage over anyone.

    Honest players dont sit on 6 plus million gens and only log on for an hour so thats the first clue that something nefarious is taking place.


    A 100,000 gen score runs me approx. 150,000 an hour upkeep.

    A 1 million gen score runs around 1.5 million an hour.

    A 6 million gen runs you approx. 9 million an hour.


    With a 24 hour ban on arms trades after coming out of v.mode that would leave this gen bank time enough time for no trades as upkeep would automatically dismiss his troops and ships after 8 hours.

    Cheating problem solved just like that.


    There is no reason any honest player would have a gen score like that and no reason for us honest players to have to fight this day in and day out.


    The solution is simple.

    Crow.

  • Please, let me do a little introduction.


    "Logical fallacies" are techniques used mainly by political speakers to convince the audience about their reasoning, but using a fake logic or creating relationship between unrelated events, or claiming that something is true because "everybody knows it". This is particular annoying on forums, because it easily starts flames based on nothing. That's why The crow I have to tell it another time: if you don't provide any proof your accusations, and you don't stop to create false correlations, I'll have to ask to a Mod to intervene. The same Deliverance : any further accusation or insults based on ethnicity or nationality won't be tolerated any more.


    So I avoid to answer about the Iranians attitude to commerce accounts (it's an Ad Hominem reasoning), how it is possible to grow in score in few minutes (you all know very well how) or to explain why it is wrong that "The solution is simple" (what is?) and similar amenities: please remember that correlation does not mean causation, so any further discussion is totally useless. There is an extensive literature about the fallacies, but maybe you can have a look at this video for a quick recap before to post anything else: https://youtu.be/IawIjqOJBU8 - In case, I'm sure that now we all are aware what I'm talking about.


    Moreover, please don't forget it, we are here to discuss about the game and not about the personal attitude of players in RL. If the tone and the level of this thread don't return at acceptable level, I'll ask to close it.


    Indeed, let me resume once more the situation. As you already know, on beta there are strong players using borderline techniques to grow and to improve their strength. A 12-years old server is not made by children but by really skilled players and big accounts, and be sure that, when we notice behaviour that can be considered against the rules, we will stop them, no matter if they are 12-years old. Moreover, as you noticed, we are intensifying checks on beta.


    The origin of the accounts and outgame agreements are NOT under our control and are NOT part of the reasons leading to a ban. Ethnicity or origin or alliance of a player are NOT reasons that make the accounts potentially guilty or that raise special need to keep them under special control. Usage of VPN / VPS is NOT forbidden in general, but in particular in countries where there is a regime that blocks connections on some parts of the world. Usage of banks is NOT forbidden, if we don't notice any rule violation like multiaccount. This is the game, such features/rules are present, you are free to use them too until you stay inside the rules.


    And about us: everybody is innocent until we gather enough proof that he is guilty, and such proofs must be strong, because we don't ban just on few "clues" or "hints" or "possibilities" or "words of mouth" or personal feelings. The players have to live with that., for better or worse. Just to let you know, if we were to apply just "clues" or "hints" or our personal feeling on the accounts of the players writing here, at least 3 of them should be permabanned. They are still playing because we DO apply that principle and we DO NOT stop anyone until OUR rules tell that we can do it. Even if you won't made aware about such rules, be sure that we apply them in a unbiased and fair way.


    This is the way things are, and will be.


    Kind regards

  • Well I gave a very easy solution to ending this problem. I can guarantee you the only ones who enjoy this game right now are the guys useing the exploits to take out players and that's exactly what the motivation is.

    Make players go (i) inactive and yes they do ask some members if they would like to sell their account or risk being a farm. They also threaten whole islands with a tax on them if they dont allow them to use their islands for attacks.

    I also have other accounts and am general on one so I have seen the messages sent to our members.

    The game continues like this and I'll be calling it a wrap because it is literally unplayable in this state.


    Crow

  • Correlation is not necessarily causation but it's a damn good starting point and one not to be overlooked! :-)


    Smoking guns...


    Racism and insults? None seen so far


    GF are now thankfully getting on top of some of the appalling abuses that had gone on for years undetected but readily apparent by fight capability and style ingame e.g. VPN IP Alts self feeding, account sitting hacks cheats bots exploits etc - none of which a mere mortal player we can actually prove with evidence and screen shots - I've tried with quick reports from time to time but what information we can gather without GO Tools for inference triangulation odd patterns of behaviour 24/7 activity IP anomalies and so forth is beyond a player's gift.


    One simple solution apply vmode cooldown on BM sales

  • T&C Part 3 all interesting especially:


    3.2.5

    It is not permissible to use the ‪Gameforge‬ Services via anonymisation services or similar means capable of suppressing or concealing the real IP address or the origin of the user.

  • Sampisa your long response an hour or two ago is much appreciated - It justifies an equally written counter point or half a dozen


    I will address this later in detail - it will take a bit of serious thought :-) Occam's Razor trumps a logical fallacy anyday and Pareto's Law for 80% result for 20% work - e.g. post vmode cooldown for BM sales


    We have many of us, including Sampisa gone off topic slightly, been a little rude to one another, made threats and lightly breached code of conduct stuff


    This thread has had a lot of attention - 10 pages 3500 views in a month. What's not to like?


    For now I can assure you that a certain person from a certain country with family and friend links in Hamburg is up to no darn good - Crow has experienced PC oddities after PMs with him. The certain person from a certain country is well funded and very technically IT savvy as is/are his accomplice/s


    I'd welcome any detailed analysis of my conduct and actions to prove my innocence. I do know a lot of insider stuff due to being elected General (they twisted my arm) for the recently merged alliance from a country far away as they were losing to their opponents - took a a bit of effort but to all intents and purposes we WON


    Your humble servant in battle


    Deliverance

  • T&C Part 3 all interesting especially:


    3.2.5

    It is not permissible to use the ‪Gameforge‬ Services via anonymisation services or similar means capable of suppressing or concealing the real IP address or the origin of the user.

    Whenever you use your cell phone, your real IP is hidden. Whenever you user Opera Mini, or decide to activate the optimisation of contents on Chrome, you come from a proxied IP. If you are a customer of some landline operators, you are inside a local network and your IP is the one of some big network routers. There are players coming from some countries (e.g. North Korea, China, Iran, Syria, Bahrain, Pakistan, Turkey, etc) who have to use VPNs to access to the internet. That's why the rule forbidding proxy usage was removed years ago from Ikariam, and we normally are really lenient about this matter. Our CoMa badidol decided that VPN or proxy usage is not forbidden per se, but its misuse (e.g. to hide actions circumventing IP-Sharing limits) can cause a ban.

  • ...

    Someone else instead told that - I resume it - a player should enter on vacation mode as he wishes. It should be instead limited the opportunity to trade for some time after exiting from vmode. In this case, the point of view was moved to the actions available, not to the vmode itself. Both interesting points, probably they need further refinement.

    I tend to agree that a player should be able to enter V-mode at will with the exception of before and after Black Market trades.


    I think a better option would be to put limits on entering V-mode after any sort of black market transaction, being it buying or selling. If you are buying you obviously do not want to enter V-mode soon, why else purchase units. If you are selling and hitting V-mode you are obviously abusing the game mechanics.


    If there is no limit on the buying aspect the mechanics can still be abused. Take for instance two accounts A and B. Account A is the military bank and account B is the gold bank. Account A and B come online, account A then sells everything to account B thus not having to deal with upkeep account B then hits V-mode immediately letting account A live with the inability to immediately reenter V-mode. While account B can hit V-mode, thus effectively switching A to the gold bank and B to the military bank.


    Deliverance @#$%! for making me finally create a board account.

    Edited once, last by John_Doe ().

  • T&C Part 3 all interesting especially:


    3.2.5

    It is not permissible to use the ‪Gameforge‬ Services via anonymisation services or similar means capable of suppressing or concealing the real IP address or the origin of the user.

    Whenever you use your cell phone, your real IP is hidden. Whenever you user Opera Mini, or decide to activate the optimisation of contents on Chrome, you come from a proxied IP. If you are a customer of some landline operators, you are inside a local network and your IP is the one of some big network routers. There are players coming from some countries (e.g. North Korea, China, Iran, Syria, Bahrain, Pakistan, Turkey, etc) who have to use VPNs to access to the internet. That's why the rule forbidding proxy usage was removed years ago from Ikariam, and we normally are really lenient about this matter. Our CoMa badidol decided that VPN or proxy usage is not forbidden per se, but its misuse (e.g. to hide actions circumventing IP-Sharing limits) can cause a ban.

    Thank you that is a very helpful clarification that could maybe be snuck into the rules or T&C so the rest of us know :-)

  • Regardless of VPN exploit advantages There is an easy solution and thats a 24 hour ship or troop sales ban after exiting v.mode.

    That would end every single problem with dishonest players that can generate a quick 500,000 gens after you spent 5 days slogging it out non stop(Del will vouch for this)only to get them down to their last 100 steams after sinking 20,000 and see them regenerate in the blink of an eye.


    I dont play this game for fun anymore to but to save this server from these few people that want to bring it down. Del can also vouch for this as he is fighting for the same reason and has fought and played as long as I have.I have built nothing for 2 years except ships and troops.

    PGA knows me well,I still have many of their now dead multi mobes on my islands.


    Kill the ability to sell ships and troops when fresh out of v.mode and us honest fighters will solve this problem once and for all.

    We would put most pga multi cheaters in v.mode in 24 hours.

    With the coup d'etat that went on recently in pga putting babak in power I dont see any good coming as they exploit even larger gen and gold banks for them to use.


    Crow.

  • I'm kinda curious as to why PGA wont come on and defend themselves.

    But why ruin a good thing right?


    They got it made right now no matter how many accounts get banned.

    Mock the rules

    Mock the game operators.

    Free will to do what they want with vpn allowed.

  • Regardless of VPN exploit advantages There is an easy solution and thats a 24 hour ship or troop sales ban after exiting v.mode.

    That would end every single problem with dishonest players that can generate a quick 500,000 gens after you spent 5 days slogging it out non stop(Del will vouch for this)only to get them down to their last 100 steams after sinking 20,000 and see them regenerate in the blink of an eye.

    Sadly if there is not a limit on the buying aspect as well, I can think of several ways within the game mechanics to support a general bank, as long as it goes into V-mode with enough gold to weather the sales ban. Further it does not take much to calculate total loses in a period of time and pull the military bank 24 hours before it is needed.

  • Game Rule Clarification Guide presumably has wiggle room for US server versus En servers and others


    but that is not stipulated so for now it contradicts what Sampisa has just said about VPN


    on overnight reflection the VPN use being officially allowed (but only if not abused for circumvention unlinked alt IP multi accounts etc) it would have been useful to have that information early in the thread. It doesn't really change anything though as Crow thread is about abuse of VPN to hide the likes of a certain person and his minions. And of course I agree with VPN use to allow players on mobiles/ other platforms/ or countries that have excessive control to be able to use Ikariam - it's just that's not what it says in the T&C.


    I also have long ramble about intentional and inadvertent weapons trade circumvention to clarify - for another day another thread. plus multiple anomalies I've noticed in the BM itself over time - I use BM a lot


    for now the focus remains on how to level things off and rebalance when we're trying to fight honestly against blatant cheats - the mantra is still simple vmode cooldown on BM sales. (and worry about A selling to B who vmodes and all that stuff later)


    Any chance we could get a vote going on it for a month? :-)

  • Regardless of VPN exploit advantages There is an easy solution and thats a 24 hour ship or troop sales ban after exiting v.mode.

    That would end every single problem with dishonest players that can generate a quick 500,000 gens after you spent 5 days slogging it out non stop(Del will vouch for this)only to get them down to their last 100 steams after sinking 20,000 and see them regenerate in the blink of an eye.

    Sadly if there is not a limit on the buying aspect as well, I can think of several ways within the game mechanics to support a general bank, as long as it goes into V-mode with enough gold to weather the sales ban. Further it does not take much to calculate total loses in a period of time and pull the military bank 24 hours before it is needed.

    Yes but we don't want to over complicate the solution to 80% of the problem. It is entirely possible to run modest gens banks legitimately and effectively - two or three at last count from countries and players other than that certain one that merged more recently

  • There can be NO excuse for Game Forge to allow such multimillion general banks.

    It is shameful and should be stopped. No normal player can fight against players using such means.

    It falsifies the whole game. Where is the level playing field ?

    Not in Ikariam, obviously !

  • There can be NO excuse for Game Forge to allow such multimillion general banks.

    It is shameful and should be stopped. No normal player can fight against players using such means.

    It falsifies the whole game. Where is the level playing field ?

    Not in Ikariam, obviously !

    Yeah I can with help. And I know other honest players who can, but it should never have been like this. Unintended Consequences are not always "Game Features". Logical Fallacies can also sometimes be Illogical Facts.