From Discord: Add a 24 hour pillage and blackmarket ban after vmode (about general banks)

    This was suggested on Discord and badidol made a comment around it:


    Badger: "People should not be able to sell units with black market, pillage others, and go vmode again in the next 24 hours after they are back from vmode. Some people abuse it to pillage overnight and then go back to vmode again. People also abuse alt accounts to store soldiers and get the account back to vmode without losing any gold."


    Tendo: "You want to set 3 different restrictions for Players who came out of the Vmode.

    no pillaging, I think that one doesnt make too much sense, like you can get pillaged but cant pillage others, unfair.

    no Vmode again, that wont happen anyway

    no blackmarket, 24h might be a bit much, but this one obv makes sense and would remove General Banks mostly"


    badidol: "This has been discussed a couple of times already and as a matter of fact, a change will be made in that regard. Details when fixed and available."


    https://discord.com/channels/6…87779/1390263713793310820


    There will be some change regarding this topic. If you have a general bank, you should let your alliance know and start making some plan. At this time, it's unknown what the change will be.

    Quote from Quartz

    All I ask is no v-mode for 48 hours. If there's a cooldown after going into v-mode there can be a cooldown coming out of it.


    What problem would that solve?


    If players need to keep their accounts in vmode because they can't play the game at the moment, forcing them to be active and vulnerable (and need to monitor wine usage, upkeep costs for military, etc) sends a message that people who need to take more than 30 days away from the game to deal with real life aren't welcome here. This has nothing to do with the black market.

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    Turmoil's in the air

    Hold your breath be deadly calm

    Make a final prayer

    Don't forget what you have done

    I like seeing anti-bank propaganda. And thats from someone who holds banks. I just hope what they want to implement makes sense because i have a strong feeling it probably won't. The large problem is that if they take them out completely, there would always be a way around it or a next best bank idea. I mean.. if 10 accounts hold small militaries to protect 1 big account, there's not much improvement going to happen. I will say again.. there needs a new server, new rules.. there is too much exploits and ways around things at this point, i don't see a good result going to happen without a complete overhaul tackling all of it not just banks. A new, heavy enforced server, no transfers in, no multiaccount, no cheap ambro.. i am sick of saying these same things. I don't even want someone to agree with me, i wan't to hear a DISAGREEMENT. Why can't this work? Don't say time or effort, there is plenty effort in the wrong direction

    Quote from JuneBarcarolle
    Quote from Quartz

    All I ask is no v-mode for 48 hours. If there's a cooldown after going into v-mode there can be a cooldown coming out of it.


    What problem would that solve?


    If players need to keep their accounts in vmode because they can't play the game at the moment, forcing them to be active and vulnerable (and need to monitor wine usage, upkeep costs for military, etc) sends a message that people who need to take more than 30 days away from the game to deal with real life aren't welcome here. This has nothing to do with the black market.


    The cooldown is 48 hours, not 30 days.

    The issue is that there's currently a hard limit on how long someone can be in vacation mode.


    If you want to stay in vmode for more than 30d, you need to come out of vmode and go back into vmode. This is to prevent people from vmoding island spots indefinitely.


    If you add a cooldown, then someone who wants to vmode for 45 days, has to go out of vmode and wait 48h to go back into vmode.


    Personally, I don't believe there should be any restrictions on when someone can go in vmode.


    There may be other restrictions on what they do while they're out of vmode, but there should be nothing preventing them from going back into vmode.


    Hell, even if someone comes out of vmode, pillages, and goes back into vmode, they're still stuck in vmode for another 48h, and I do believe that's sufficient.

    Quote from Cheech

    I like seeing anti-bank propaganda. And thats from someone who holds banks. I just hope what they want to implement makes sense because i have a strong feeling it probably won't. The large problem is that if they take them out completely, there would always be a way around it or a next best bank idea. I mean.. if 10 accounts hold small militaries to protect 1 big account, there's not much improvement going to happen. I will say again.. there needs a new server, new rules.. there is too much exploits and ways around things at this point, i don't see a good result going to happen without a complete overhaul tackling all of it not just banks. A new, heavy enforced server, no transfers in, no multiaccount, no cheap ambro.. i am sick of saying these same things. I don't even want someone to agree with me, i wan't to hear a DISAGREEMENT. Why can't this work? Don't say time or effort, there is plenty effort in the wrong direction

    Have you read this thread? You should.... it seems long, but it is not. Many players said the same thing, they always find another loophole. Some people say the big guys are profitable to the company, that's why things haven't changed much. Others are crazy to see GF's numbers lol

    Quote from Cheech

    I like seeing anti-bank propaganda. And thats from someone who holds banks. I just hope what they want to implement makes sense because i have a strong feeling it probably won't. The large problem is that if they take them out completely, there would always be a way around it or a next best bank idea. I mean.. if 10 accounts hold small militaries to protect 1 big account, there's not much improvement going to happen. I will say again.. there needs a new server, new rules.. there is too much exploits and ways around things at this point, i don't see a good result going to happen without a complete overhaul tackling all of it not just banks. A new, heavy enforced server, no transfers in, no multiaccount, no cheap ambro.. i am sick of saying these same things. I don't even want someone to agree with me, i wan't to hear a DISAGREEMENT. Why can't this work? Don't say time or effort, there is plenty effort in the wrong direction

    Yea but they have to be out of vmod which allows you to attack them and destroy army, pillage towns, block ports etc... It is not same...

    Quote from Duske

    Yea but they have to be out of vmod which allows you to attack them and destroy army, pillage towns, block ports etc... It is not same...

    Hmm, they can Vmode it. Even if they pre-built an army up to 100k generals and V mode 5 accounts to protect a main. They don't even need to trade to acquire generals. This is something i would do myself if banks got banned, im just saying there is always alternative. The difference is i would be doing this IP shared, 80% of others will be fighting un-Ip'd. Even if gold got consumed while in vmode, i would still have spare accounts holding their 'maximum' without going into deficit, probably around 70k generals. Now imagine other people aren't confined to 11 accounts (VPN naughties), there could be dozens of accounts holding and building military without having the need to trade or vmode. I will say again, if they are countering banks, they need to counter multi-accounts at the same time otherwise its pointless

    Quote from Johnny B.

    Have you read this thread? You should.... it seems long, but it is not. Many players said the same thing, they always find another loophole. Some people say the big guys are profitable to the company, that's why things haven't changed much. Others are crazy to see GF's numbers lol

    You know what else is profitable? A healthy playerbase. Its slowly getting less - and the new updates are probably driving more people away then bringing them in. Right now im farming someone who's played since old alpha server - im assuming he quit after these updates. But there are ways to bring in new players, they just should be allowed to grow and not over-shadowed by older players. New server, new rules. Even if the devs are completely useless, the bare minimum is allow godly protection until 100k points or 60 days. Listen, im a knowledgeable person but i can say honestly i got farmed until i stopped playing one of the new servers - what chances does a new player have?

    Quote from Cheech
    Quote from Duske

    Yea but they have to be out of vmod which allows you to attack them and destroy army, pillage towns, block ports etc... It is not same...

    Hmm, they can Vmode it. Even if they pre-built an army up to 100k generals and V mode 5 accounts to protect a main. They don't even need to trade to acquire generals. This is something i would do myself if banks got banned, im just saying there is always alternative. The difference is i would be doing this IP shared, 80% of others will be fighting un-Ip'd. Even if gold got consumed while in vmode, i would still have spare accounts holding their 'maximum' without going into deficit, probably around 70k generals. Now imagine other people aren't confined to 11 accounts (VPN naughties), there could be dozens of accounts holding and building military without having the need to trade or vmode. I will say again, if they are countering banks, they need to counter multi-accounts at the same time otherwise its pointless

    Than such accounts whold nee to be played as real accounts considering new upgrades... Those accounts also could be pillaged and blocked while they are out of vmod... They also whould need full wonders... Anayway it whould be far harder than just buying from banks...

    Considering how this idea of the 24/48 hour ban was originally from Deliverance who is one of the best fighters on the server (perseus) I will explain what it was all about as it's not complicated. As gen banks give big alliances an edge and especially with the allowing of multiple accounts this will make it very expensive to use one. Gen banks are only used when fighters need ships and troops fast and some will use it to run a million gens and there really is no skill involved in fighting with this advantage and it makes it very hard for anyone with no gen bank to fight back using skills that were needed before like high level barracks and shipyards and taverns and museums. I have fought with and without gen banks and know the difference very well.

    The upkeep on a huge gen bank by the hour is phenomenal when it's open and that's why they don't stay open longer then an hour or so.

    The original idea was an account coming out of v.mode cant sell arms or troops for 24(or 48) hours. Then when you spend a week building and beating down a guy with a half a million gens he doesn't magically gain another half a million with a click of the mouse while your population is so low you cant even build 1 hop. Fighting in this game used to involve strategy and skill before gen banks and now it's about who has the biggest gen bank and gold.

    Without gen banks wars are fought with alliance members making and selling to the fighters and now with the infinite horizons and upgrades even more so.

    It takes a lot of alliance participation like wars did in the old days unlike now where guys will throw in 200,000 troops into an attrition fight and check back in 24 hours and add what's needed. Rinse and repeat for 1000 rounds.

    There is very little skill or strategy involved and smaller players do not stand a chance.

    That being said the #1 fighter on perseus does not use gen banks but he fights people with banks around 30 million gens and is unbeatable.

    He has a lot of support and spends a lot of time online fighting because of skill, strategy and tactics and a lot of people helping him and his small alliance against the 2 of the top alliances in the top 3.

    I know he is unbeatable because he was my general on 3 servers so far.


    Crow

    I fought about 6 wars building military, then the last one i used banks. The difference is insane. Big man must be completely insane to not use banks considering he's averaged about 3m offence for as long as i remember. I don't like this methodology but i didn't create this game - im not numb in the head

    A gen bank just lets you warehouse troops without worrying about upkeep.


    You can also have people build troops, on demand, and buy them from the black market. It's not uncommon to have a relationship where X pillages, X sells his pillage for gold, and X buys troops with gold from a set of suppliers. While I've never been a troop supplier. I have been a supplier before.


    I've made accounts where X wanted to pillage/fight. I'd coexist on his islands. I'd buy the wood from them with gold, especially after I had 180 ships, then donate it where they wanted me to. Conversely, I'd sell them wine/marble/sulfur/crystal if they needed it, otherwise I'd sell it for more gold.


    Usually, I'd also feed pirate points in exchange for 1 shipment of goods (almost always marble).


    Playing a support is pretty simple, so we used to make deals where his main server is A, my main server was B. I'd be his supplier on A, and he'd donate to my islands on B.


    It's all about having enough income, pillage or otherwise, to be able to feed the troops.

    Yes but that takes time and some skills and coordination. Most of the people we fight that rely on banks dont do any of that. They just buy troops and send in mostly to attrition fights.

    What banks do is let you save troops for the future. That's it. Someone still has to build them.


    Saying that banks don't require any coordination is disingenuous. They are generally a cooperative effort by entire alliances.