Infinite Horizons 2

Quote from Rastan

Quote from vivaldi30

I got to say new upgrade suck big time. Before you had the satisfaction that you reached maximum level, and kinda planned the way your game is gonna get. Now, they pushed the final level so far away for all buildings, that I guess it is impossible to reach any maximum level, or at least it ll take years. Maybe they think the game became infinitive, but unfortunately our live isn't. Shame... They ruined what s left in this game. It s like they think we are natives, and they wiggling colored glasses infront of pur eyes "Oh, look what we have, if you get trillions and trillions of resources, and in 7 years, anything you order, will be built in ONE SECOND. Oh, what a future would that be!"

Ridiculous. I guess some stupid idiot thought that GF is gonna last 1000 years.

Despite what badidol might claim the game is dying, everyone can see it in game.

it's not unusual though as games like this generally peak and then decline over time.

The grindy work is to try and keep people interested in the game but they're going about it the wrong way.

I think they're targeting the whales which are the big spenders that keep the game going.. the type of people that will drop 100's or 1000s of dollars in the game a month and will do so for ego alone.

I don't really see where they're going with the game, I'd just quit but with so many years wrapped up into it and it doesn't take much time day to day is the only reason Im still around at all.

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I quit and I don't regret, but you can go on v-mode for a while. My mates did that....... Some of them returned, others didn't.

Is it true that in a navy battle, we should recall our wave and send another one every 4 rounds? I’ve noticed that I lose more ships if I don’t do that, even with 700 tenders (Hudrets).

In defence, I think it’s easier. I want to understand the Ikariam formula after the update.

Alright.. i've read all 33 pages of this forum, im glad i did.

This past few weeks i've been losing my mind. I play this game combat based, everyone has their own playstyle but that is primarily what i like - It's both simple and very complex. These past few updates have had me questioning whether to keep playing or not. My forge is nerfed, my wall has lost power, both minor so it's not too alarming. But these workshop upgrades? ???? what??? On paper the forever expansion is great. More building upgrades, combat investing accounts, cargo improvements. This seems wonderful! The delivery? wow. Probably the worst i've seen. Before i start this rant let you tell you, you can ruin every aspect of this game, just not combat. The ability to defend myself and what im building is the baseline requirement. So the reducers and BM going overcap and doing nothing is funny, i could just ignore it. The forge nerf is disappointing, especially since no one was asking for it. The fact that developers can change the game randomly and blatantly ignore feedback is VERY alarming. You can not be smart, its fine, but atleast listen to someone that is, get some opinions. I have seen some people in this thread that know what they are talking about. AT Barbarossa, Lucky, Lili, The crow, Rastan - there was alot more. I agree with almost everything. To the point i feel like i wrote some of these myself. I was personally exited about the cargo improvements, the more improvements, the longer the pillage time. Square one yippie. Sorry, negative resources, always a catch. I was also exited about workshop improvements (forgive me, i know). The fact i could tailor my account to combat based seemed very promising. The problem is i have only came back a couple years ago, what i can invest is stones and shells compared to a big player. Also, since i didn't see workshop upgrades coming, my accounts are all small and i haven't bothered to develop them because there was no need. *sigh*. I invested a couple months into the test server to get pre-insight. This has only lead me to become a doomsayer to my alliance at this point. The test server is another subject, *another heavy sigh*. All effort for little result. I am going to say something nice every interval so the reader doesn't get discouraged - pushing the test server to players is a step forward. I was in disbelief to see it. I commented on how bad it was a day earlier to see it getting advertised a day later. To see Badidol do something that worked in my favour was the slight flicker of hope that might suggest signs of life, intelligence, evolution. I did get to see how fatal the +5 upgrades could be, the pre-warning. I wanted to fight someone on the test server, no one responded. Instinctively i attacked the biggest player. If you somehow get to read this, i love you just remember that because the next few words might contradict that. It was the classic example of big vs small. My first time forged was bad. My second time unforged was bad x5. My first round and i lost twice as many swords, i was forged, he was unforged. This sets the tone. I do my best to dislodge him, he sits there static and wins rounds simply by upgrades. Second time i do unforged and this becomes an almost slaughter. I actually win the reports if not for flanks, the sword losses were 2.74x greater. There are counters for this but lets not make this normal where sleepy joe is champion despite being not being compos mentis. Combat is your pride, your report % is your worth, a player will respect that. I have played only 2 servers so far and i've been respected by the majority of the server, and that's just from ability. These workshop upgrades might aswell make me the ticklemonster. I know what to upgrade, trust me. But i severly dislike the idea that i can simply be out invested. Why am i playing? What brings me joy in this game? A 60/40 report where im perfect and he is underperforming and winning? This won't last, my patience won't last. This is me who puts themselves in war to understand the game mechanics more saying i don't think i can do much if an aggressor is a big account and invests in upgrades. What do you think the average guy can do? Or the player who just started? Vacation mode, accept their losses or quit. What a good set of options. I really want to continue this but its late and i got work in morning. I only discussed mainly workshop upgrades, there is sooooooo many topics but for the purpose of this thread being the new update i will keep it tailored. Anyways, i am very glad to see people say similar things, and persistently. I don't want to give up on this game, im just saying bad trajectory. To be continued. Also, and this applies to AT Barbarossa, don't worry about spartans to be honest, atleast not yet. I understand before upgrades they were already more powerful. The +1 update made them stronger i believe but to my surprise the +5 update didn't favour spartans. I was actually surprised to see an update that went against spartans. They were already overpowered so its not too potent. Even with hoplites at +20/20 they were still holding even and i was unforged. So after people get into the 30s thats when you should worry about spartans, something like that. Peace

The worst thing is the new version removed the satisfaction anf joy to be able to say, look I achieved something monumental AND meaningful. For example, reach in all towns top wall level, or even half, or in 2-3 tol barracks level, in other town too trade lev etc. And even one attempts, time and res needed, would keep him for achieving anything else.

Can at least give more space spots, or change the pirate game to include more winners, or change the barbarian fight (I extensively mentioned how is now not worth attacking barbarians level 50 and above, see my relevant posts), or at least bring back the cracken event, that was fun. What can I say...

When we merged to perseus every island was chock full!

Resource industries were at level 40 and now half the islands are empty and it seems being a building server all the bullies came here. I tell you if your not real good at fighting and are not in an alliance you are dead meat against some of these whales that bought their way to the top here. We all know who's going to spend the big bucks for the upgrades that will make them untouchable.

Wars on perseus are fought with guys with half a million or a million gen scores.

Whales galore here.

Gameforge in their quest for more money or to make it beneficial to developers that play the game has it rigged so only the whales or dev's will progress.

Crow

Hello all,

I have recently run some tests regarding the new buffed military upgrades. These are the results:

Test results, Forge vs Forge:

attacker

land:

9/8 hops

8/10 swords

6/7 gyros

5/5 balloons

5/7 guns

5/5 mortars

7/6 rams

sea:

5/6 steams

8/8 rams

6/7 flames

5/5 mortars

5/5 rockets

5/5 carriers

5/5 paddles

VS.

defender

land:

3/3 hops

3/3 swords

1/0 gyros

0/0 rest

sea:

0/0 all

SNIPES, sea

1-30-6

1-30-5

SNIPES, land

vs gyro

vs balloon

STANDARD, land

ROUND 1

STANDARD, sea

steams vs steams, rockets

ROUND 1

wave vs steams, rockets

ROUND 2

wave vs wave

ROUND 3

CONCLUSION

Im glad that Gameforge decided to buff the upgrades. We finally received a new goal in terms of military development for our accounts.

Some players enjoy the playstyle of sniping entire fleets within minutes. The defender usually doesnt like having to monitor the game 24/7 to avoid getting sniped. Personally, I think the interaction between 5/5 carriers and paddles vs 0/0 rockets, carriers, and paddles is a little too strong, and Im not sure if this is healthy for the game.

Aquila

Quote from -Aquila-

Some players enjoy the playstyle of sniping entire fleets within minutes. The defender usually doesnt like having to monitor the game 24/7 to avoid getting sniped. Personally, I think the interaction between 5/5 carriers and paddles vs 0/0 rockets, carriers, and paddles is a little too strong, and Im not sure if this is healthy for the game.

If you use subs, there is more possibility now to lose only 2 subs instead of 4. This should mitigate fakes.

In other words if you want to mitigate fake you have to invest all you have only in paddle attacks and subs armour, and avoid using rockets at all.

Still better avoid to keep fleet at all.

Quote from Cheech

Alright.. i've read all 33 pages of this forum, im glad i did.

This past few weeks i've been losing my mind. I play this game combat based, everyone has their own playstyle but that is primarily what i like - It's both simple and very complex. These past few updates have had me questioning whether to keep playing or not. My forge is nerfed, my wall has lost power, both minor so it's not too alarming. But these workshop upgrades? ???? what??? On paper the forever expansion is great. More building upgrades, combat investing accounts, cargo improvements. This seems wonderful! The delivery? wow. Probably the worst i've seen. Before i start this rant let you tell you, you can ruin every aspect of this game, just not combat. The ability to defend myself and what im building is the baseline requirement. So the reducers and BM going overcap and doing nothing is funny, i could just ignore it. The forge nerf is disappointing, especially since no one was asking for it. The fact that developers can change the game randomly and blatantly ignore feedback is VERY alarming. You can not be smart, its fine, but atleast listen to someone that is, get some opinions. I have seen some people in this thread that know what they are talking about. AT Barbarossa, Lucky, Lili, The crow, Rastan - there was alot more. I agree with almost everything. To the point i feel like i wrote some of these myself. I was personally exited about the cargo improvements, the more improvements, the longer the pillage time. Square one yippie. Sorry, negative resources, always a catch. I was also exited about workshop improvements (forgive me, i know). The fact i could tailor my account to combat based seemed very promising. The problem is i have only came back a couple years ago, what i can invest is stones and shells compared to a big player. Also, since i didn't see workshop upgrades coming, my accounts are all small and i haven't bothered to develop them because there was no need. *sigh*. I invested a couple months into the test server to get pre-insight. This has only lead me to become a doomsayer to my alliance at this point. The test server is another subject, *another heavy sigh*. All effort for little result. I am going to say something nice every interval so the reader doesn't get discouraged - pushing the test server to players is a step forward. I was in disbelief to see it. I commented on how bad it was a day earlier to see it getting advertised a day later. To see Badidol do something that worked in my favour was the slight flicker of hope that might suggest signs of life, intelligence, evolution. I did get to see how fatal the +5 upgrades could be, the pre-warning. I wanted to fight someone on the test server, no one responded. Instinctively i attacked the biggest player. If you somehow get to read this, i love you just remember that because the next few words might contradict that. It was the classic example of big vs small. My first time forged was bad. My second time unforged was bad x5. My first round and i lost twice as many swords, i was forged, he was unforged. This sets the tone. I do my best to dislodge him, he sits there static and wins rounds simply by upgrades. Second time i do unforged and this becomes an almost slaughter. I actually win the reports if not for flanks, the sword losses were 2.74x greater. There are counters for this but lets not make this normal where sleepy joe is champion despite being not being compos mentis. Combat is your pride, your report % is your worth, a player will respect that. I have played only 2 servers so far and i've been respected by the majority of the server, and that's just from ability. These workshop upgrades might aswell make me the ticklemonster. I know what to upgrade, trust me. But i severly dislike the idea that i can simply be out invested. Why am i playing? What brings me joy in this game? A 60/40 report where im perfect and he is underperforming and winning? This won't last, my patience won't last. This is me who puts themselves in war to understand the game mechanics more saying i don't think i can do much if an aggressor is a big account and invests in upgrades. What do you think the average guy can do? Or the player who just started? Vacation mode, accept their losses or quit. What a good set of options. I really want to continue this but its late and i got work in morning. I only discussed mainly workshop upgrades, there is sooooooo many topics but for the purpose of this thread being the new update i will keep it tailored. Anyways, i am very glad to see people say similar things, and persistently. I don't want to give up on this game, im just saying bad trajectory. To be continued. Also, and this applies to AT Barbarossa, don't worry about spartans to be honest, atleast not yet. I understand before upgrades they were already more powerful. The +1 update made them stronger i believe but to my surprise the +5 update didn't favour spartans. I was actually surprised to see an update that went against spartans. They were already overpowered so its not too potent. Even with hoplites at +20/20 they were still holding even and i was unforged. So after people get into the 30s thats when you should worry about spartans, something like that. Peace

Assuming someone is 10x your score, their upgrades should be +3/3 compared to you, that's it. If they aren't, you're under upgraded. Each upgrade is usually slightly more than double.

If you don't want to invest in your troops then, I don't know what to say other than wait around for Ikariam Classic.

Quote from User12996

If you don't want to invest in your troops then, I don't know what to say other than wait around for Ikariam Classic.

They should at least give us the option to choose. I think a lot of people would like to play the old and good ikariam again.

Quote from Gothic Eye

Quote from User12996

If you don't want to invest in your troops then, I don't know what to say other than wait around for Ikariam Classic.

They should at least give us the option to choose. I think a lot of people would like to play the old and good ikariam again.

I honestly don't see what the big deal is with the new system, though, but that's probably because I played Ogame before Ikariam. In Ogame, you always had w/s/a (equivalent to Ikariam's upgrades, but for all ships and defense).

If you want to go around attacking other players, this is a good system for you, because you're incentivized to upgrade your troops and the more you upgrade, the greater your battlefield advantage should be.

Every post complaining about it is always around the lines of "what if someone has more upgrades than me?!" which, well, increase your upgrades, then.

Quote from User12996

I honestly don't see what the big deal is with the new system, though, but that's probably because I played Ogame before Ikariam. In Ogame, you always had w/s/a (equivalent to Ikariam's upgrades, but for all ships and defense).

If you want to go around attacking other players, this is a good system for you, because you're incentivized to upgrade your troops and the more you upgrade, the greater your battlefield advantage should be.

Every post complaining about it is always around the lines of "what if someone has more upgrades than me?!" which, well, increase your upgrades, then.

Brother. Someone has more gold, you need to match his gold. Someone has more generals, you need to match his generals. Someone has more time, you need to match his online time. Someone has more accounts, you need to match his accounts. Someone warps 5x a day, you need to be mobile too. Someone spends 50k ambro a year to be at top, you need to match that to compete. An alliance attacks with 20 people, you need more numbers to match that. A player has a piracy bot farm of 100, you need a bot farm to stay competitive. Someone on your server has just duplicated 10million generals, are you going to try do the same to survive or just accept getting hit. Where is the line that you draw? I don't want this system, it's bad. If someone has developed their account for 10 years and im 2 years, how much more do you think he can invest? Should i spend 8 years grinding resources to match his upgrades? behave yourself. Come up with solutions. Classic server is a solution, i would play it. I like the combat system because we are all even. Bigger accounts can have more gold, generals etc but when it comes to fighting they have no advantage in battle. This is changed. Now ability is not required. Now gauntlets is pointless. Now combat isn't fun. I can type the same things in 100 different ways, my opinion remains the same. Unfortunately i have run out of time again and probably can't respond for up to 2 weeks. In the event of my return its business as usual, gotta do my keyboard rounds every opportunity. A community without a voice is anarchy, i will say my complains daily and often and hopefully the game i choose to play everyday can improve and not devolve into mindless bots and investment simulator

Quote from User12996

Quote from Gothic Eye

Quote from User12996

If you don't want to invest in your troops then, I don't know what to say other than wait around for Ikariam Classic.

They should at least give us the option to choose. I think a lot of people would like to play the old and good ikariam again.

I honestly don't see what the big deal is with the new system, though, but that's probably because I played Ogame before Ikariam. In Ogame, you always had w/s/a (equivalent to Ikariam's upgrades, but for all ships and defense).

If you want to go around attacking other players, this is a good system for you, because you're incentivized to upgrade your troops and the more you upgrade, the greater your battlefield advantage should be.

Every post complaining about it is always around the lines of "what if someone has more upgrades than me?!" which, well, increase your upgrades, then.

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Most people dont have the money to do all the upgrades. Soon there will be nothing but a few whales left.

Crow, lastly. Perseus is a strong server. I spent a graveyard cycle on it. The very first day i was getting pillaged ahaha. I have read the reports on ikalogs, i got some background knowledge on the alliances. They are other good servers too but they are definitely levels between some ones. Anyways, have fun

Quote from Cheech

Quote from User12996

I honestly don't see what the big deal is with the new system, though, but that's probably because I played Ogame before Ikariam. In Ogame, you always had w/s/a (equivalent to Ikariam's upgrades, but for all ships and defense).

If you want to go around attacking other players, this is a good system for you, because you're incentivized to upgrade your troops and the more you upgrade, the greater your battlefield advantage should be.

Every post complaining about it is always around the lines of "what if someone has more upgrades than me?!" which, well, increase your upgrades, then.

Brother. Someone has more gold, you need to match his gold. Someone has more generals, you need to match his generals. Someone has more time, you need to match his online time. Someone has more accounts, you need to match his accounts. Someone warps 5x a day, you need to be mobile too. Someone spends 50k ambro a year to be at top, you need to match that to compete. An alliance attacks with 20 people, you need more numbers to match that. A player has a piracy bot farm of 100, you need a bot farm to stay competitive. Someone on your server has just duplicated 10million generals, are you going to try do the same to survive or just accept getting hit. Where is the line that you draw? I don't want this system, it's bad. If someone has developed their account for 10 years and im 2 years, how much more do you think he can invest? Should i spend 8 years grinding resources to match his upgrades? behave yourself. Come up with solutions. Classic server is a solution, i would play it. I like the combat system because we are all even. Bigger accounts can have more gold, generals etc but when it comes to fighting they have no advantage in battle. This is changed. Now ability is not required. Now gauntlets is pointless. Now combat isn't fun. I can type the same things in 100 different ways, my opinion remains the same. Unfortunately i have run out of time again and probably can't respond for up to 2 weeks. In the event of my return its business as usual, gotta do my keyboard rounds every opportunity. A community without a voice is anarchy, i will say my complains daily and often and hopefully the game i choose to play everyday can improve and not devolve into mindless bots and investment simulator

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First, I'm not going to address anything that's against the game rules (illegal multis, botting, duping etc.). Obviously, that's against the rules so anyone engaging in that sort of behavior should be banned.

Second, yes, if you can have 11 accounts per server and you don't have 11 accounts per server that you play on you aren't playing competitively. Those are the rules of the game and if you want to be the best, you need to abide by the rules of the game. (I'm assuming that based on your post that you're looking to be #1 on the server.)

Third, yes, that's how any game like this works. Someone will have more resources (gold/res/generals/time/ambrosia) than you. Your counter play is to attempt to make wiser long term investments than they do.

The system isn't bad. Someone who has a 2 year old account should have a difficult time fighting someone who has a developed 10 year old account. Yes, he should've invested more. Yes, he should have an advantage, he's played the game longer. Yes, you should spend time catching up to him, but realize that if you spend 8 years catching up to him, he'll be 18 years versus your 10 years and should still have an advantage over you. Even without upgrades, he should at least have a sizable advantage in gold and res per hour.

If you dislike someone having a time advantage over you, there are new servers that get opened up periodically. That's the big appeal of new servers and why they're opened so frequently, everyone gets to start over and everyone is on even footing.

I get it, you want everyone to have even troops, but to me, that's boring in a game like this. Larger accounts should have larger advantages.

fortunately for you, larger accounts do have larger advantages. At the cost of everything

Quote from Cheech

fortunately for you, larger accounts do have larger advantages. At the cost of everything

There's no at the cost of everything. Both accounts have the same systems and are playing with the same rule set. I get it, you don't like the new rule set, but realistically, I don't see it changing outside of upgrades benefiting some units more or less. For example, buffing a +5 armor per upgrade to +10 or reducing +10 armor per upgrade to +5.

Therefore, you need to make a choice. If you don't like the new direction of the game, you decide if the change in course is enough for you to quit. If so, quit. If it isn't, keep playing.

The update is new enough there's plenty of time for you to upgrade your troops, too, and I doubt everyone will upgrade the same regardless so if you're as big of a fighter as you say you are, you'll end up with an advantage over most players.

Also Ikariam, and any game with pay to win features, generally mean that whoever has the largest wallet wins. This is generally how pay to win games are designed:

Finally, it's important to remember that Ikariam is a game, and that if you aren't having fun, you should quit.

Quote from User12996

Quote from Cheech

fortunately for you, larger accounts do have larger advantages. At the cost of everything

There's no at the cost of everything. Both accounts have the same systems and are playing with the same rule set. I get it, you don't like the new rule set, but realistically, I don't see it changing outside of upgrades benefiting some units more or less. For example, buffing a +5 armor per upgrade to +10 or reducing +10 armor per upgrade to +5.

Therefore, you need to make a choice. If you don't like the new direction of the game, you decide if the change in course is enough for you to quit. If so, quit. If it isn't, keep playing.

Realistically, the update is new enough there's plenty of time for you to upgrade your troops, too, and I doubt everyone will upgrade the same regardless so if you're as big of a fighter as you say you are, you'll end up with an advantage over most players.

Also Ikariam, and any game with pay to win features, generally mean that whoever has the largest wallet wins. This is generally how pay to win games are designed:

Finally, it's important to remember that Ikariam is a game, and that if you aren't having fun, you should quit.

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Free to play,they even used that in their early advertisements and probably still do. Their loss.

Ugh, its late. Someone said before, there are 3 types of people, builders, fighters and pirates. If you've even set up a building accounts - it's almost opposite to a fighting account. Almost nothing is similar, hense growth gets severely staggered while fighting. Don't say 'i pillage alot', You need to pillage miliions of miilions per day to even pay off these large army upkeeps. It's not profitable. I would give you an example. 2 people started on the same server, im about 5million score, the other person is about 60m. I have never been out of combat for over 2months say, whereas the other person has only built and not seen combat. Not atall. Good so far, this is my issue. This man who chose the building path would be able to out-fight me now. He's not good at combat, doesn't know the game but he will beat me by workshop upgrades. So now Builders (or farms, whatever you want to call them) are beating combat based people. Im at a loose, loose. GG gameforge. The last type of people are pirate people. They are bots and feeders, no one cares about them. They play a minigame for some reason, idk

Quote from Cheech

Ugh, its late. Someone said before, there are 3 types of people, builders, fighters and pirates. If you've even set up a building accounts - it's almost opposite to a fighting account. Almost nothing is similar, hense growth gets severely staggered while fighting. Don't say 'i pillage alot', You need to pillage miliions of miilions per day to even pay off these large army upkeeps. It's not profitable. I would give you an example. 2 people started on the same server, im about 5million score, the other person is about 60m. I have never been out of combat for over 2months say, whereas the other person has only built and not seen combat. Not atall. Good so far, this is my issue. This man who chose the building path would be able to out-fight me now. He's not good at combat, doesn't know the game but he will beat me by workshop upgrades. So now Builders (or farms, whatever you want to call them) are beating combat based people. Im at a loose, loose. GG gameforge. The last type of people are pirate people. They are bots and feeders, no one cares about them. They play a minigame for some reason, idk

Any builder with that much of a high score advantage over you would be able to outfight you, though, even before this update, simply because Ikariam is fundamentally a resource based game. You might have the initial advantage if you surprise attacked them, but with more res and a more developed account, they'd be more likely to pivot to counter attacking you if you couldn't reach a peaceful agreement. This generally doesn't happen because builders want to build, though, and tend to want to seek a more cooperative arrangement.

But even in that extreme of an example, at best, he'd be +4/+4 to you, assuming you're properly upgraded. If he's as sloppy as a fighter as you're stating, then you should be able to easily beat him, even at a +4/+4 disadvantage. You'd just have slightly more losses.

Plus, upgrades have diminishing returns. Going from 95 armor to 100 armor is ~5.3% improvement. From 100 to 105 is a 5% improvement. And from 105 to 110 a 4.76% improvement.

Quote from Cheech

Bigger accounts can have more gold, generals etc but when it comes to fighting they have no advantage in battle.

False.

Bigger account with bigger generals and general banks can dispose of tons of paddles and balloons to fake you.

Wars in old servers can go in 2 directions:

1) infinite battles where both part can produce more than killed units

2) fake or multiimpact strategy.

Personally none of them is funny for my and that is why since December 2024 i have stopped trying to be competitive in wars.

Quote from Cheech

Plus, upgrades have diminishing returns. Going from 95 armor to 100 armor is ~5.3% improvement. From 100 to 105 is a 5% improvement. And from 105 to 110 a 4.76% improvement.

These percentage are not all.

If you up swordmen armor from + 195 to 200 they become mathematically immune to knifeman attacks and you do need doctors anymore for them, so maybe can worth the investment

Moreover in some situation being even only one up in advance can give you a big advantage like lose 4 subs or only 2 ,

or even more OP avoid losing balloon.