Bank accounts and high number of generals

    Quote from The crow

    ...A small fix would be to make it so guys coming out of v.mode cant sell military for 24 hours. That's a simple solution to the multi and gen bank problem but for some reason only the honest players think it's a solution to the problem.

    Bank accounts is starting to be a serious problem for the game.it started with 6th digit number of generals,then go to 7th digit and now are accounts with over 10 million generals.i believe that is a serious problem for the game which growing and i "steal" the idea from The crow and i make this suggestion.

    Every one who moves out from vacation mode,could have 5 minutes countdown to put his account again in vacation mode,if want it.This is for those who want to really keep their account in vacation.

    For the others(banks included cause cant trade in 5 minutes),and after the 5 minutes passes without get in the vacation mode,there will be a 24 hours without the ability the get in vacation mode again.

    On Forum there's nothing much we can do. On the Thread I created, we posted over 100 messages discussing the current situation.


    Feel free to read our posts and gather a few friends for this movement. We can even start a discord group to discuss this matter in details.

    I'm all for the 24 hour pause selling gens for 24 hours.

    You dont need to start another server, just try 24 hours and if it works go to 48 hours.

    I see a lot of noobs on the server we went to and most are (i) now.


    The people that can make this happen though use this exploit so it will never happen.

    Getting rid of the black market would end this in a few days but that aint gonna happen.

    I disagree, I believe with this large of a change that it should be tested on another server first and feedback should be gathered before it's unilaterally implemented.


    It costs little to test it first and verify that it has the intended effect.


    Also, I do believe that if this is implemented, there should be a merge option to a server that has these features.


    Otherwise we're just shifting the rules underneath players that have played by the old system for years and I don't think that's fair.


    Do I believe general banks are problematic? Yes.


    Do I believe we should have servers where there's a 24h ban on selling troops from the black market after someone exits vacation mode? Yes.


    Do I believe we need to extend it later to 48h? No. If it should be 48h instead of 24h, it should be 48h out of the gate and not changed from 24h to 48h later. I'm indifferent to 24h or 48h but as vacation mode is a minimum of 48h, I'd also support the black market cooldown being 48h.


    Do I believe GF should roll this out without testing and without giving current general banks the option to play on servers without this feature? No.


    Do I believe GF should still have servers that allow general banks to exist? Yes. This is because the players that like general banks can play there and everyone that doesn't can play on another server. Otherwise, general bank light will simply be exported onto the other servers (it may still be exported, but at least with general bank favored servers, players that prefer having a large general bank are more likely to play on that server).


    As much as people don't like general banks, I don't believe they should simply get the rug pulled out from under them.

    Edited 3 times, last by User12996 ().

    I agree with you. On the thread I created, we all discussed possible consequences for getting rid of this alt stuff at once. Testing small and getting feedbacks are important steps to change something that has been considered part of the game for five years.

    This isn't starting to become a problem its been a problem for over 8 years. GF has no intention of fixing this or it would have been done by now. Everyone agrees its a problem. The only solution is to remove the black market or require a 24hr could down before going back into v mode. While the cool down could be worked around would require a lot more coordination at least and they would have to pay the 1% tax on the sale of all generals transferred to another account to go back into v mode burning gold at least.

    Quote from God_of_war

    This isn't starting to become a problem its been a problem for over 8 years. GF has no intention of fixing this or it would have been done by now. Everyone agrees its a problem. The only solution is to remove the black market or require a 24hr could down before going back into v mode. While the cool down could be worked around would require a lot more coordination at least and they would have to pay the 1% tax on the sale of all generals transferred to another account to go back into v mode burning gold at least.

    Badidol replied my message. This is out of the question. Check my thread clicking here.

    Quote from Killjoy
    Quote from God_of_war

    This isn't starting to become a problem its been a problem for over 8 years. GF has no intention of fixing this or it would have been done by now. Everyone agrees its a problem. The only solution is to remove the black market or require a 24hr could down before going back into v mode. While the cool down could be worked around would require a lot more coordination at least and they would have to pay the 1% tax on the sale of all generals transferred to another account to go back into v mode burning gold at least.

    Badidol replied my message. This is out of the question. Check my thread clicking here.

    Did we read the same thread? He said it's on his list of things to consider.

    Quote from User12996
    Quote from Killjoy
    Quote from God_of_war

    This isn't starting to become a problem its been a problem for over 8 years. GF has no intention of fixing this or it would have been done by now. Everyone agrees its a problem. The only solution is to remove the black market or require a 24hr could down before going back into v mode. While the cool down could be worked around would require a lot more coordination at least and they would have to pay the 1% tax on the sale of all generals transferred to another account to go back into v mode burning gold at least.

    Badidol replied my message. This is out of the question. Check my thread clicking here.

    Did we read the same thread? He said it's on his list of things to consider.

    Please, read again GOW's quote. GF has not intention of fixing it, regardless of Badidol's best intentions. Both 24-hour-selling ban and polls on discord is, according to him, out of the question. He came to the same conclusion I did: "They will always come up with new strategies to take advantage of the game", and this will lead to endless rules.

    Quote from Killjoy
    Quote from User12996
    Quote from Killjoy
    Quote from God_of_war

    This isn't starting to become a problem its been a problem for over 8 years. GF has no intention of fixing this or it would have been done by now. Everyone agrees its a problem. The only solution is to remove the black market or require a 24hr could down before going back into v mode. While the cool down could be worked around would require a lot more coordination at least and they would have to pay the 1% tax on the sale of all generals transferred to another account to go back into v mode burning gold at least.

    Badidol replied my message. This is out of the question. Check my thread clicking here.

    Did we read the same thread? He said it's on his list of things to consider.

    Please, read again GOW's quote. GF has not intention of fixing it, regardless of Badidol's best intentions. Both 24-hour-selling ban and polls on discord is, according to him, out of the question. He came to the same conclusion I did: "They will always come up with new strategies to take advantage of the game".

    ????


    "I personally see a considerable amount of bugs coming along with that one, plus, it's considerable amount of coding to add in a system that otherwise works just fine. It would also connect various systems within the game which currently aren't connected, we'd need to log things we're not yet logging, etc.

    It sounds trivial, but it isn't as trivial as it sounds. I am not convinced of this suggestion just yet, plus, I personally don't think 24h would be sufficient. Not the first time it's been brought up, though, it's already on my list of things to consider."


    GET RID OF THIS ALT STUFF!

    Check pages 8 and 9 of thread.

    And? I don't think any of that is relevant compared to to the post I quoted which is specifically about this idea.

    This is the actual black market



    Solution to general bank problem:

    1) increase the maximum level of black market to 50

    2) a new unit can be sold every 2 level in order to use all 50 levels

    3) initial tax is not 28% but 53% and go down with the same progression.

    4) upgrading cost of the black market must be reworked so that is very expensive upgrade last levels and unlock the ability to sell all type of units with small taxes (I mean milions of reources)


    This should cut off immediatly all existing general banks and it would rebalance new general banks for the future in a way "Do you want you general bank? Fine, but you have to hard work to have it"



    Moreover I appreciate if GF will implement the limitation on general score for server transfer, like the limitation on total score already exist. (Feature I already suggested in the past)

    Quote from AT Barbarossa

    This should cut off immediatly all existing general banks and it would rebalance new general banks for the future in a way "Do you want you general bank? Fine, but you have to hard work to have it"

    Creating new General Banks would cost a few more millions of ressources, no one would actually care about that.

    Like the advantage a General Bank provides cannot be compared to some ressources.


    Existing General Banks would be in trouble, sure, but this would only be a very short period of time untill new General Banks are built up, filled with Units again and everything is the same as before.


    It would simply be just a small annoyance for all those who use/have a Black market, nothing else.

    Or maybe I misunderstood you, but I can't see any relevant long-term change in this suggestion.

    Quote from Tendo

    Existing General Banks would be in trouble, sure, but this would only be a very short period of time untill new General Banks are built up, filled with Units again and everything is the same as before.

    It depends on how you rebalance the black market.

    Suppose for example to apply at black market the same resources required for the 50 levels of town hall, then the possibility of selling all types of generals with no taxes becomes a challenge possibile only in very late game, not feasible with only a few weeks.

    Quote from AT Barbarossa

    Suppose for example to apply at black market the same resources required for the 50 levels of town hall

    That's not "balanced", that's essentialy the same as removing the Black market because it would become completely useless and I don't mean just for General Banks, but for everyone.

    Actually the only ones who would still go for it, would obv. be the General Banks and those who use them, no "normal" Player would go for it but only the ones who use General Banks.


    And that's obviously not a realistic/good option to remove the Black Market.

    In fact the black market must remain.

    But if you read carefully my suggestion

    Quote from AT Barbarossa

    2) a new unit can be sold every 2 level in order to use all 50 levels

    That means, for example that at level 32 with black market will be possible to sell all units that now can be sell until level 16. That include, if you see the previous, screen, all useful units except for subs (relatively useful) and balloons.

    If you set the upgrade cost like town hall you see that is quite simple to arrive to level 32, does not take years, even if more expensive than reach the actual level 28.


    Then GF can re-balance black market how he wants, but since the life of the accounts is set on decades or more, having the possibility to sell all units with no taxes effortless, with very small accounts and investing only a few time and resources, is ridiculous.


    All the problems Ikariam actually has, and that will become worse and worse are based on the fact that the farm path is been extended like forever, new building places, new towns, new levels, new servers settings, more resource and gold income ecc, ecc.; but ad the same time the military aspect of the game and all related stuff, from battlefield dimension, to black market, are still setted like before.

    In my opinion the problem is not the cost of the black market. But the fact that almost all large accounts have multis, with IP sharing or not, that these multis are used as a bank or to have armies ready when needed, without maintenance costs, without training times.

    This is too easy and worth to use it.


    They should add a cooldown at least of 24h when you exit from vacation mode , in this time you can t buy or sell army and resource.


    At least if you want to do this convenient maneuver , you have to bear the costs of that army on the multi and try to defend it on a weak account

    And it's so simple that I wonder why it hasn't been done before

    It has been brought up recently. Actually, it's on Badidol's list of things to consider as long as it is 48hrs, which I totally agree.

    Quote from AT Barbarossa

    Then GF can re-balance black market how he wants, but since the life of the accounts is set on decades or more, having the possibility to sell all units with no taxes effortless, with very small accounts and investing only a few time and resources, is ridiculous.

    Again, imo this solves nothing and would only make it worse for those "normal" Players who use the Black Market aswell.


    Quote from AegonTheConqueror

    At least if you want to do this convenient maneuver , you have to bear the costs of that army on the multi and try to defend it on a weak account

    And it's so simple that I wonder why it hasn't been done before

    It's probably the most prominent Suggestion on that topic currently.


    The only reasonable argument I've heard so far against it is that it could be actually bad for the game if General Banks are removed (because that is basically what this suggestion would achieve), because it would be even harder to defend/attack (illegal) multi-players who use several accounts to harass you and build armies with all of them nonstop, or constantly switch between Vacation-Mode/attack.


    While I think that General Banks (as they are right now with escalating 7-8 digits general-points) should definitely be removed from the game, I kinda have to agree with that Argument to some degree.


    So my guess/hope is that the reason why we haven't seen this introduced yet, is because they're thinking how the game would look like without General Banks and whether they have to do even more, then just removing them, to make the game more enjoyable for all of us.